# Telling someone their premise is wrong is threadshitting now?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926>\
**Category:** About This Message Board\
**Created:** [September 26, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926 "2016-09-26T13:14:33Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 5

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**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/81 "2016-09-28T19:11:23Z")

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> [@Trinopus](#):
>
> I’m also not happy with the post that said, “Define demon.” This “Define God” meme is of very little use; it only serves to obstruct debate. If the definition matters, make that part of an actual thesis. “If, by God, you mean the Jewish God, then the answer will be different than if you mean the Southern Baptist God.” That’s valid, and actually carries some information forward. But “Define God, and until you do, there is nothing to talk about here” is (in my opinion) not exactly threadshitting, but pointless and obstructionist.

I don’t think it’s _intentional_ obstruction, since God has so many characteristics according to so many different people that you never know what any person has in mind. But it’s true that specifying which characteristics are wondered about would be less of a guessing game. For instance “is your God omnibenevolent, Omni–xxxx, etc.?”

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**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/82 "2016-09-28T19:15:44Z")

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I’d call that ‘fighting the topic’ myself. If someone wants to discuss religion and all someone wants to do is deny its existence over and over…that can have its place. However, if the premise of the thread is something specifically religious then doing so can certainly be threadshitting.

Let me draw an analogy.

“What do you think of the Cubs pitching this year?”  
“Cubs suck! Cards rule!”

That’s essentially what I see happening when someone fights the topic on threads covering religious questions. I’d prefer not to.

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**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/83 "2016-09-28T19:18:25Z")

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> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#):
>
> I’d call that ‘fighting the topic’ myself. If someone wants to discuss religion and all someone wants to do is deny its existence over and over…that can have its place. However, if the premise of the thread is something specifically religious then doing so can certainly be threadshitting.
> 
> Let me draw an analogy.
> 
> “What do you think of the Cubs pitching this year?”  
> “Cubs suck! Cards rule!”
> 
> That’s essentially what I see happening when someone fights the topic on threads covering religious questions. I’d prefer not to.

I see your point. Hmm.

while “Only Neanderthals care about professional sports.” would be threadshitting?😕

In either case, they dont add to reasoned polite discourse, no matter what label is used.

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**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/84 "2016-09-28T19:21:25Z")

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> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Not surprisingly, the ones who say it isnt threadshitting are often hard core proselytizing atheists, who think its perfectly OK to ridicule the Christian faith. (You never see them ridiculing other religions, oddly)
> 
> But even if it’s not threadshitting, what use is it? When there’s a discussion over whether or not Jesus was a historical figure, posting it’s all superstitious nonsense, like the Invisible Pink Unicorn is not adding anything to a reasoned debate.
> 
> Ok, we know you are not a believer, fine. What use is posting that over and over and over and over? Do you really think your brand of sarcastic ridicule with cause the Believers to go “OMG, I have been fooled all these years! That last sarcastic comment has caused me to abandon my faith!”

I don’t know where all that diversionary bait-and-switch came from, but(yet again) the thread being discussed wasn’t a simple declaration about whether or not a Biblical figure existed, and the response that is being criticized is nowhere near “It’s all superstitious nonsense!”  
Let’s see again the words you so like to ignore:

> [@](#):
>
> I’m asking this because during my attunement for Reiki I saw his name in my mind. I know this demon I just didn’t know his name. I know what he looks like because he showed himself to me when I was learning witchcraft. I don’t do witchcraft anymore. My Reiki teacher told me if he showed up during attunement that means I should work with him but she doesn’t know anything about demonology.

and

> [@](#):
>
> I believe in my past life I summoned this demon and I fell in love with him. I have talked to archangel Michael and he told me I could use that feeling of love I felt for him to help people. I literally felt how much I loved him so much I even cried and I don’t cry a lot. This demon I believe oppressed me for 15 years, and he told me he did it to see if I was still strong as he knew me to be.

and that’s just from the first post. In the second post a claim of psychic abilities was thrown in.  
I _really_ don’t think that dismissing such a post is an attack on Christianity in general…unless, of course, you faith is so weak that it cannot stand for anything but constant reassurance.

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**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/85 "2016-09-28T19:35:19Z")

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> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> I don’t know where all that diversionary bait-and-switch came from, but(yet again) the thread being discussed wasn’t a simple declaration about whether or not a Biblical figure existed, and the response that is being criticized is nowhere near “It’s all superstitious nonsense!”  
> Let’s see again the words you so like to ignore: and and that’s just from the first post. In the second post a claim of psychic abilities was thrown in.  
> I _really_ don’t think that dismissing such a post is an attack on Christianity in general…unless, of course, you faith is so weak that it cannot stand for anything but constant reassurance.

You can simply not post then. Nothing is forcing you to post in that thread- I didnt.

Ridicule adds nothing in the way of reasoned polite discourse.

If the boards resident self appointed deniers had simply not posted, the thread would have died.

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**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/86 "2016-09-28T19:46:09Z")

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> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> If the boards resident self appointed deniers had simply not posted, the thread would have died.

And if this were one of those woo boards where anyone can make any claim, no matter how ridiculous, and other posters either support it wholeheartedly, nod silently, or are disappeared you might have a point.  
But I don’t think it is, and I don’t think you do.

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**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/87 "2016-09-28T19:47:00Z")

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> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> I don’t know where all that diversionary bait-and-switch came from, but(yet again) the thread being discussed wasn’t a simple declaration about whether or not a Biblical figure existed, and the response that is being criticized is nowhere near “It’s all superstitious nonsense!”  
> Let’s see again the words you so like to ignore: and and that’s just from the first post. In the second post a claim of psychic abilities was thrown in.  
> I _really_ don’t think that dismissing such a post is an attack on Christianity in general…unless, of course, you faith is so weak that it cannot stand for anything but constant reassurance.

Do you not claim to be one of those who \*“prefer to converse with those that are willing to listen to, and be open to, viewpoints other than their own”? \*

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**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/88 "2016-09-28T19:52:03Z")

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> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Do you not claim to be one of those who \*“prefer to converse with those that are willing to listen to, and be open to, viewpoints other than their own”? \*

There are such things as limits, ridiculous extremes, delusions and the like, which is why I specifically used the phrase “_prefer_ to…”.  
And did I not ask the OP if she/he was open to the possibility that there might be a mundane explanation for the occurrences? It is the OP the ran off, not I.

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**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/89 "2016-09-28T19:59:49Z")

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> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> There are such things as limits, ridiculous extremes, delusions and the like, which is why I specifically used the phrase “_prefer_ to…”.  
> And did I not ask the OP if she/he was open to the possibility that there might be a mundane explanation for the occurrences? It is the OP the ran off, not I.

So, what you’re saying is that **you** are not _“willing to listen to, and be open to, viewpoints other than their own”_ but\*\* others\*\* must be _willing to listen to, and be open to, viewpoints other than their own._:rolleyes:

Because of course- \*their \*viewpoints are ridiculous delusional nonsense, while _your_ viewpoints are models of rational thought?:rolleyes:

wow. simply wow. :eek:

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**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/90 "2016-09-28T20:01:00Z")

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> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Not surprisingly, the ones who say it isnt threadshitting are often hard core proselytizing atheists, who think its perfectly OK to ridicule the Christian faith. (You never see them ridiculing other religions, oddly) . . .

Well, I, for one, am about as hard-core an atheist as they come, and I’m still willing to talk theology on its own merits. I may be an exception… (Also, we atheists disagree with all religions; Christianity gets our attention because it’s the most commonly witnessed faith here. If a die-hard Muslim came to the SDMB and began witnessing, you can bet he’ll get the same push-back.)

> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#):
>
> . . . Let me draw an analogy.
> 
> “What do you think of the Cubs pitching this year?”  
> “Cubs suck! Cards rule!” . . .

I see it as even more negative, as if the response was, “Who cares? Football is America’s national game, not baseball” or “Large-scale sports are a total waste of civic resources and should be banned.”

(At least, in your example, the response, rude as it was, actually did answer the question! Also Go Padres…yeh, I know, fat chance…)

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**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/91 "2016-09-28T20:05:38Z")

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> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> So, what you’re saying is that **you** are not _“willing to listen to, and be open to, viewpoints other than their own”_ but\*\* others\*\* must be _willing to listen to, and be open to, viewpoints other than their own._:rolleyes:
> 
> Because of course- \*their \*viewpoints are ridiculous delusional nonsense, while _your_ viewpoints are models of rational thought?:rolleyes:
> 
> wow. simply wow. :eek:

The only “wow” I see is your completely inaccurate reinterpretation of what I said. Next time, why don’t you do us both a favor and just react to my quoted words instead of your reimaginings, o.k.?

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**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/92 "2016-09-28T21:38:25Z")

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Everyone calm the heck down. I’d hate to see a thread in ATMB get moved to the Pit along with a warning or two.

Also, go Cubs.

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**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/93 "2016-09-28T21:39:24Z")

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> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#):
>
> Everyone calm the heck down. I’d hate to see a thread in ATMB get moved to the Pit along with a warning or two.
> 
> Also, go Cubs.

_Damn_ right!

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**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/94 "2016-09-28T21:39:27Z")

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> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#):
>
> Also, go Cubs.

Your premise is wrong.

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**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/95 "2016-09-28T21:40:00Z")

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> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#):
>
> Everyone calm the heck down. I’d hate to see a thread in ATMB get moved to the Pit along with a warning or two.

OK. Good point.

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**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/96 "2016-09-28T21:41:04Z")

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> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> OK. Good point.

You left out the pertinent part of his message.

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**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/97 "2016-09-28T22:23:51Z")

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> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#):
>
> Your premise is wrong.

OK, I’v been congested all week, and now I have to clean up my keyboard!! 😃

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**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/98 "2016-09-28T22:32:17Z")

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Ew.

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**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\
**Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/99 "2016-09-29T00:52:31Z")

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I leave you folks alone for 24 hours (pesky job!) and this thing is picking up speed like a hurricane in the Gulf Stream. I’ve got nothing substantive to add at this point, but if somehow this ATMB made the hyperspace jump to the Pit it’d be epic. One for the record books.

I’m renewing my thread subscription just in case. 😃

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**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\
**Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-someone-their-premise-is-wrong-is-threadshitting-now/766926/100 "2016-09-29T02:39:47Z")

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> [@Crazyhorse](#):
>
> As I noted some posts back one way of doing that without literally saying those words is to dismiss multiple or complex questions or themes with simple, dismissive posts like “no.” or “no, because they don’t exist”. That happening is exactly what this thread is about.

Whether our “charter” is or is not “Fighting Ignorance,” factual answers really ought to command higher respect, generally, than what you appear to be advocating here.

And when the answer “no, because they don’t exist” IS the factual answer, it really ought to be given its due.

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