# Ten Commandments decision is in **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 27, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047 "2005-06-27T15:16:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/21 "2005-06-27T17:22:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. > > The nerve of those Jews, thinking they have some connection with the Ten Commandments. As if! Now **Bricker** , the ignorance or evasion is showing there! The problem still remains that it is not just the Ten Commandments but which 10 commandments are shown. If the 6th commandment appears as “You shall not kill.” It is therefore a purely Christian interpretation as Jews read the commandment as: “You shall not murder” Which in reality is a very important difference. And I would add Catholics too to **Evil Captor** ’s list too, the commandments order is different and one is added: “You shall not make unto you any graven images”. That is not in the Catholic Decalogue. So the ten commandments of infamous fame in the recent news are indeed non inclusive to other faiths and also exclude Jews and Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/22 "2005-06-27T17:23:19Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > So much for Freedom of Speech. Its OK to burn and stomp on the flag of the American people, but to display the words that are accepted by a significant portion of the American people, Christians, Muslims, and Jews is verboten. In the “flag burning” threade, nobody adocated burning official buildings’ flags. And in this thread, nobody advocated a ban on displaying your own ten comandments monument on your own property, either… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/23 "2005-06-27T17:27:08Z")
> [@Captain Lance Murdoch](#): > > This was a pretty muddy decision, IMO. Sometimes the 10C are okay and sometimes they’re not. This will leave the lower courts struggling with these kinds of cases for years to come. The SC will likely have to revisit this decision in the future. Yep. Of course, this is how the SCOTUS has handled these types of issues for a long time. I still don’t like any more than you do, though. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/24 "2005-06-27T17:35:39Z")
> [@villa](#): > > …Not worth fighting for you. How do you think a Moslem accused of a crime feels about his chances of impartiality when he walks into a courtroom and stands in the dock facing a display that tells him he is in violation of what the court is stressing as Gods law? Not to put too fine a point on it, but a sincere Moslem regards himself as a legitimate heir to the legacy of Abraham. Indeed, Moslem theology explicitly recognizes both Abraham and Jesus as divine messengers. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/25 "2005-06-27T17:42:33Z")
Not to put to fine a point on that, but I know, and it is simply not relevant to what I am saying. The purpose of the display is clear, and it isn’t secular. Anyone who does not hold to the religion intended to be furthered by that purpose (and I would say it is Christianity, though to save argument, lets say Judaism or Christianity) is likely to see it as an indication they do not have equal chances of a fair trial. And without pubic confidence, the system begins to self-destruct. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/26 "2005-06-27T17:50:56Z")
Out of curiosity if nothing else, what _is_ the status, if any, of the Ten Commandments in Islam? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/27 "2005-06-27T17:53:12Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > So much for Freedom of Speech. Its OK to burn and stomp on the flag of the American people, but to display the words that are accepted by a significant portion of the American people, Christians, Muslims, and Jews is verboten. Interesting. I had no idea that Muslims followed Mosaic Law. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/28 "2005-06-27T17:55:11Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > Out of curiosity if nothing else, what _is_ the status, if any, of the Ten Commandments in Islam? > **[Muslim View of the Ten Commandments](https://www.learnreligions.com/muslim-view-of-the-ten-commandments-250914)** > > The Muslim view of the Ten Commandments as applied to Islam: They do not accept the authority of the listing that appears in the Bible. > [@](#): > > Islam does not accept the absolute authority of the Bible, teaching that it has become corrupted over the years, and therefore it does not accept the authority of the listing of the Ten Commandments that appears in the Bible. Islam does, however, accept the status of both Moses and Jesus as prophets, which means that the commandments are not completely ignored, either. > > … > > while Islam doesn’t exactly have its own “Ten Commandments,” it does have its own versions of many of the basic prohibitions given in the Ten Commandments. Because they accept the Bible as an earlier revelation of God they don’t object to things like displays of the commandments in public spaces. At the same time, though, they aren’t likely to see such displays as a religious duty or necessity because as described above they don’t accept the absolute authority of the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/29 "2005-06-27T18:01:01Z")
Here’s the FindLaw version of the opinion. Non-PDF. [McCREARY COUNTY, KENTUCKY, et al. v. AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION OF KENTUCKY et al.](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&navby=case&vol=000&invol=03-1693) I’ll refrain from posting further until I have time to read this. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/30 "2005-06-27T19:29:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. > > The nerve of those Jews, thinking they have some connection with the Ten Commandments. As if! Well sure. They were the ones who had them before they were stolen, re-divided, repackaged, and reinterpreted. The version that Kentucky posted is not the traditional Jewish take on the Ten, nor the Catholic, but the Protestant. Which is precisely the sort of pointless secretarian pissing match that has no place in government. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/31 "2005-06-27T19:35:47Z")
/ ignoramo-mode / The Jews do not worship the Bible! They worship the Torah, an entirely different book that is not even written in English! / /ignoramo-mode / ---
**Author:** ![Wartime\_Consigliori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9d8465/32.png) [@Wartime\_Consigliori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wartime_Consigliori)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/32 "2005-06-27T20:08:08Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > So much for Freedom of Speech. Its OK to burn and stomp on the flag of the American people, but to display the words that are accepted by a significant portion of the American people, Christians, Muslims, and Jews is verboten. But **grienspace** , people can display the Ten Commandments in their yards, their churches, their places of business, etc. Hell, on my 5 minute drive to work I pass no fewer than 12 yards where folks have the commandments posted on cardboard yard signs. And I know of no law that says a judge can’t keep a copy of the commandments or anything else with his or her personal effects behind the bench. I can’t accept your statement that individual Freedom of Speech is shot to hell by the court’s rulings. As an aside, I was speaking to a friend who happens to be a local businessman. He can’t understand why the Ten Commandments are prohibited in courtrooms, etc. So I asked him, where exactly in your establishment are the Ten Commandments posted? He said they aren’t posted on the wall anywhere. Why, I asked? His response; “I didn’t want to offend a potential customer.” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/33 "2005-06-27T20:32:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Gets the ball out of our court, puts it squarely in theirs, so that the Pentecostals can duke it out with Opus Dei over Marianist doctrine, and the Wiccans can square off against the Amish. > > Good clean fun if you haven’t a dog in the fight. Call me crazy but I gotta go with the Amish dogs. Just a gut feelin’ ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/34 "2005-06-27T20:42:36Z")
> [@Wartime Consigliori](#): > > Hell, on my 5 minute drive to work I pass no fewer than 12 yards where folks have the commandments posted on cardboard yard signs. Sweet smokin’ Jesus! I’ve never seen anyone do that! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/35 "2005-06-27T20:52:52Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > So much for Freedom of Speech. Its OK to burn and stomp on the flag of the American people, but to display the words that are accepted by a significant portion of the American people, Christians, Muslims, and Jews is verboten. I’ll take non-sequiturs for 1000, Alex. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/36 "2005-06-27T21:12:45Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’ll take non-sequiturs for 1000, Alex. ROFL. There’s a difference between people burning flags that they own in symbolic protest, and displaying in a **public** building the 10 Commandmants. On your own property, you have the freedom to burn a flag if you want to, or display the 10 Commandments if you want to. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Highwayman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Highwayman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Highwayman)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/37 "2005-06-27T23:25:54Z")
Just a few points of ignorance to clear up: You are right, we Catholics have 9 Commandments. Why is everyone referring to 10? What is the extra one? \*\*Give me a break. :wally \*\* For your information, we have virtually the same Decalogue that every other branch of Christianity has. The first four being for God, the other six for man. The Commandment to which you are referring concerns the one God, having no others, and making “graven images”. Idols and not statues of our God anyone? But concerning the OP, the 10 Commandments have a weak link to our law. Our law is based (in order of importance) on Anglo-Saxon common law, Canon law (which comes mostly from Roman jurisprudence and Divine law), and a select mish-mash of various other sources. The 10 Commandments fit into the “Divine Law” part of this equation. However, the best argument for our system of law not being based on the 10 Commandments is that it is not the Semitic _Lex Talionis_, it is not “an eye for an eye” as much as some of the so-called “Christians” would like it to be. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/38 "2005-06-27T23:31:19Z")
OK, I read the two opinions. Well, not in their entirety-- there was an “eyes glazing over” factor that came into play at times, but I did get thru most of them. Taken together, it seems that the court is saying: It’s OK to post the Ten Commandments as long as it’s part of a historical display about history, but not if it has a purely, or mainly, religious intent. And we’ll be checking very closely for that intent. I guess this will be a full employment act for the lawyers who litigate this type of thing, since determining the intent of lawmakers can be a tricky thing if you tell them in advance you’ll be looking for it. They’ll take extra pains to hide it. Religion? Why the thought never occured to me! It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the next confirmation process. One justice difference could have swung either case the opposite way. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/39 "2005-06-27T23:49:37Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > So much for Freedom of Speech. Its OK to burn and stomp on the flag of the American people, but to display the words that are accepted by a significant portion of the American people, Christians, Muslims, and Jews is verboten. Yep. The government cannot tell us what God to worship, and the government cannot tell us how we may or may not criticize the government. That’s why I love the Democrats; they’re all about limiting government. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047/40 "2005-06-28T00:08:51Z")
> [@Captain Lance Murdoch](#): > > Sweet smokin’ Jesus! I’ve never seen anyone do that! I think it’s mainly a southern thing. I see them in Alabama and I especially saw them in small town Georgia. (I changed car insurance agents when mine not only put that cheesy “For Sale” sign looking ubiquitous Big 10 on his lawn but plastered his bulletin boards with support for Roy Moore and other cases and had a basket full of Chick pamphlets in the lobby- it’s his right to feel that way and my right to take my business elsewhere). The “do not kill” v. “do not murder” dichotomy mentioned above is one I’ve always found particularly ironic. “Do not murder” is a much tighter rule than “do not kill” which, taken literally, would mean “Don’t take another person’s life… PERIOD”, yet invariably the people who want to display the DO NOT KILL Big 10 are _overwhelmingly_ (almost unanimously) pro death penalty as well. A majority are probably pro Iraqi invasion as well (when Jesus said “turn the other cheek”, he never said jack about Ay-rabs!). As a gay-theist I would be very intimidated about appearing in a courthouse with Biblical imagery. Luckily those responsible lack the courage of their convictions (after all, the penalty for breaking the commandments was public execution). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-commandments-decision-is-in/310047.md?page=3)