# Ten Worst Presidential Blunders... What do you think? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152 "2006-02-19T02:32:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/1 "2006-02-19T02:32:28Z")
[According to a survey of Presidential scholars](http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/18/president.mistakes.ap/index.html): 1. James Buchanan mishandles Southern secession, leads to Civil War 2. Andrew Johnson opposes laws to improve treatment of Southern blacks post-Civil War 3. Lyndon Johnson watches as Vietnam War intensifies 4. Woodrow Wilson takes hardline on Treaty of Versailles 5. Richard Nixon orders Watergate coverup 6. James Madison fails to keep U.S. out of War of 1812 7. Thomas Jefferson signs off on Embargo Act of 1807 8. JFK orders Bay of Pigs invasion 9. Ronald Reagan (and/or his administration) initiates Iran-Contra deals 10. Bill Clinton embroils nation in Monica Lewinsky scandal Any thoughts on this list? Additions/switches? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/2 "2006-02-19T02:37:57Z")
I just read about this a minute ago (curses, I thought I could start this thread!). I was surprised because I think they really did put the worst blunder at the top of the list. Although I’m not sure exactly what Buchanan could have done. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/3 "2006-02-19T02:40:02Z")
Oddly, I think they did a pretty good job with the list. I guess they really are scholars. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/4 "2006-02-19T02:42:20Z")
Number 10 should be replaced with “Bush invades Iraq.” Lewinsky was a minor affair with no real consequences, blown up into a huge “scandal” by the Republicans. Frankly, the fact that that was the worst they could hang on him made me think better of Clinton. Iraq is an utter disaster, with lots of dead bodies, international hatred, massive financial losses, and so on. It’s far worse; I’d put it somewhere between 2 and 4 on that list. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/5 "2006-02-19T02:46:58Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Number 10 should be replaced with “Bush invades Iraq.” Lewinsky was a minor affair with no real consequences, blown up into a huge “scandal” by the Republicans. Frankly, the fact that that was the worst they could hang on him made me think better of Clinton. Iraq is an utter disaster, with lots of dead bodies, international hatred, massive financial losses, and so on. It’s far worse; I’d put it somewhere between 2 and 4 on that list. One problem: these are HISTORIANS, who deal with HISTORY, which is things that have already happened, and that they can analyze in a historical context. Thus Bush and Iraq can’t qualify yet. And the article says that Monica is #10 just for the reason you state, basically: that it affected Clinton more than the nation at large. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/6 "2006-02-19T02:52:03Z")
It’s hard to say that affair wasn’t a blunder on Clinton’s part, even if many others were more significant. Iraq can’t be higher on that list than Vietnam, and at the moment I don’t think it belongs on the list. It’s jus too soon. And I agree that this is a quality list. Clearly, scholars do better at lists than the editors of Rolling Stone. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/7 "2006-02-19T03:01:50Z")
Good list. I know that many presidents will be rated lower on their overall presidential behavior than Clinton, but I’m having trouble thinking of a more stupid single act (assuming Bush has immunity). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/8 "2006-02-19T03:11:17Z")
The Clinton item seems petty compared to the others, unless we take into account that it lead to his impeachment. In that sense, it was a huge blunder for him, although it’s hardly of historic consequence for the country. And #7… I’m not familiar with this one. Was it a big deal? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/9 "2006-02-19T03:27:47Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The Clinton item seems petty compared to the others, unless we take into account that it lead to his impeachment. In that sense, it was a huge blunder for him, although it’s hardly of historic consequence for the country. Agreed. And while Iran-Contra was a very disturbing abuse of Presidential power I don’t recall it having an enormous negative impact on the nation. Certainly not to the point where it should be ranked right after the Bay of Pigs invasion, which led to the Cuban missile crisis How about Cal Coolidge’s failure to act on stock market excesses which made possible the Wall St. Crash and Great Depression? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/10 "2006-02-19T03:29:39Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The Clinton item seems petty compared to the others, unless we take into account that it lead to his impeachment. In that sense, it was a huge blunder for him, although it’s hardly of historic consequence for the country. I would have to agree with this. He made a decision to get a blow job, which well not the best decision, doesn’t quiet have the same consequences for the nation as the other decisions on the list. All of the effect from that decision came from the unnecessary, partisan hounding from the Republicans. Even considering the fallout, what really was the result of the whole fiasco? He wasn’t removed from office, nor were there any negative effects on the country, besides going through the scandal. Off the top of my head, Roosevelt’s internment of the Japanese in WWII, Jackson’s ignoring the Supreme Court, or Reagan’s decision to give WMDs to Saddam are all much, much worse than Clinton’s decision. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/11 "2006-02-19T03:30:02Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The Clinton item seems petty compared to the others, unless we take into account that it lead to his impeachment. In that sense, it was a huge blunder for him, although it’s hardly of historic consequence for the country. > > And #7… I’m not familiar with this one. Was it a big deal? For the same reason, I’d say the same about Watergate. Mistakes that get people killed are worse than those that don’t. However bad Watergate was for Nixen, and whatever political firestorm it set off, it didn’t have much of a body count. It really doesn’t belong on the same list as errors that start major wars. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/12 "2006-02-19T03:35:18Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > I’m having trouble thinking of a more stupid single act Bush41’s “Read my lips! No new taxes!” comes to mind, but it’s unclear to me if “blunder” means an act damaging to the country or damaging to the particular president’s administration. If the former, Clinton’s dalliance with Lewinsky shouldn’t even be in the top hundred. Another possibility is Eisenhower allowing U2 flights over the USSR in 1960 as an important summit approached. Gary Powers got shot down, a big headache ensued, the summit was cancelled and the cold war continued. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/13 "2006-02-19T03:35:30Z")
I might have gone with a few more economic blunders; Jackson abolishing the National Bank and Reagan breaking up the phone company and deregulating the savings & loan industry. I’d also include Nixon’s declaration of a War on Drugs; Coolidge’s decision to appoint J. Edgar Hoover to direct the FBI; Wilson’s decision to restore discrimination in the federal civil service; Jackson’s decision to defy the Supreme Court; and John Adams’s Alien and Sedition Acts. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/14 "2006-02-19T03:46:26Z")
Shouldn’t Teapot Dome be on there? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/15 "2006-02-19T03:50:09Z")
I’d move number 4 up to number 2. A better outcome at Versailles for Germany might have allowed the Weimar Republic to survive and prosper, ending the economic depression. The Clinton thing was Clinton’s fault like it was Lincoln’s fault that he went to the Ford theater to watch that play, thus allowing himself to be assassinated. Dumb decision on old Abe’s part, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/16 "2006-02-19T03:57:08Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > For the same reason, I’d say the same about Watergate. Mistakes that get people killed are worse than those that don’t. However bad Watergate was for Nixen, and whatever political firestorm it set off, it didn’t have much of a body count. It really doesn’t belong on the same list as errors that start major wars. It sort of does, though, because it had a major effect on society, and on people’s perception of government and trust in government. ---
**Author:** ![Gladstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90db22/32.png) [@Gladstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gladstone)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/17 "2006-02-19T04:10:07Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I’d move number 4 up to number 2. A better outcome at Versailles for Germany might have allowed the Weimar Republic to survive and prosper, ending the economic depression. If anything, Wilson wanted to go easy on Germany in terms of punishing them with heavy reparations. Britain’s PM Lloyd George and France’s PM Clemenceau wanted Germany to suffer and certainly weren’t interested in fostering a democracy there. Wilson’s big mistake was in not gauging the return to isolationism that had taken hold in Congress and realizing that it would never agree to League of Nations. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/18 "2006-02-19T04:22:04Z")
I’m torn between applauding the scholars for Blunder #2–I nominate Andrew Johnson for “worst president”, usually without any support, every time we have that debate–and objecting to Blunder #1. James Buchanan was a pro-slavery dunderhead, but by the time South Carolina seceded, there wasn’t a damn thing he could do. He actually deserves credit for not turning over Fort Sumter without a fight and making things worse. And I agree that Indian removal, Japanese-American internment, and Alien and Sedition should be on the list. > [@John Mace](#): > > And #7… I’m not familiar with this one. Was it a big deal? Yes. Jefferson effectively imposed trade sanctions on his own nation and almost provoked New England to secede. It was a horrible mistake, but you don’t hear much about because . . . well, because he was Jefferson. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Shouldn’t Teapot Dome be on there? Probably not. Teapot Dome is overrated as a scandal. Harding had the misfortune to die in mid-scandal, so even his own party had no interest in defending him. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/19 "2006-02-19T04:43:22Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > The Clinton thing was Clinton’s fault like it was Lincoln’s fault that he went to the Ford theater to watch that play, thus allowing himself to be assassinated. Dumb decision on old Abe’s part, eh? Going to the theatre: A morally neutral act by any reasonable standard A married man getting oral sex from a subordinate within the Oval Office itself: Whole 'nuther ball of wax ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/20 "2006-02-19T04:58:33Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > It sort of does, though, because it had a major effect on society, and on people’s perception of government and trust in government. But was it a _bad_ effect ? Distrust of the powerful is usually prudent; look at all the people throughout history who have caused disasters or done evil because they thought the government or the Leader could do no wrong. > [@JThunder](#): > > A married man getting oral sex from a subordinate within the Oval Office itself: Whole 'nuther ball of wax A very small ball of wax, frankly. It was Hillary Clinton’s buisiness, but no one else’s. Certainly not the Republicans, who are hardly in a position to claim moral superiorty on any subject. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152.md?page=2)