# Ten Worst Presidential Blunders... What do you think? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152 "2006-02-19T02:32:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/201 "2006-02-25T09:38:49Z")
> [@Freddy the Pig](#): > > One cannot grant an institution an exclusive national charter and a monopoly over central banking and note issue without coercion. You didn’t say anything about any “national charter”. Whatever monopoly arises, it should arise from free market competition, not from government fiat. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/202 "2006-02-25T09:42:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > He might even be responsible for \*delaying \* it. [The October Surprise conspiracy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise_conspiracy). If I were Carter, I’d slap somebody. The ridiciulous allegation of conspiracy that you hold credible is an insult to him. If he was so weak that he could not win without a hostage release, then he was too weak to be president anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/203 "2006-02-25T19:40:55Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You didn’t say anything about any “national charter”. Whatever monopoly arises, it should arise from free market competition, not from government fiat. That’s my point–that the monopoly profits of the First and Second Banks of the United States arose from government fiat, _not_ from the market. Which is why I hold the killing of those banks to be a defensible act, not a blunder. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/204 "2006-02-25T20:12:57Z")
> [@Freddy the Pig](#): > > That’s my point–that the monopoly profits of the First and Second Banks of the United States arose from government fiat, _not_ from the market. Which is why I hold the killing of those banks to be a defensible act, not a blunder. Apologies for the misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/205 "2006-02-25T20:19:44Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > I don’t think so. But I never said I did. I just said his ideas were defensible _at the time_. Note this portion of what I said:And anyway, I don’t think the decision was any worse than a lot of other blunders (in retrospect) that US Presidents have made in the Middle East. \*See, e.g., \* the Clinton and Carter actions I referred to in my original post. Again, those blunders were remarkably similar, both in the fact that they were defensible at the time, and in that we’re still dealing with the consequences today. The problem is though, they weren’t defensible, for the most part. We condemned many people to tyrannical, brutal dictatorships, all in the name of “fighting communism”. A lot of the regimes we supported were far, far worse than the “communists” we overthrew. Many of them weren’t truly communist, either. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/206 "2006-02-26T02:08:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > The problem is though, they weren’t defensible, for the most part. We condemned many people to tyrannical, brutal dictatorships, all in the name of “fighting communism”. A lot of the regimes we supported were far, far worse than the “communists” we overthrew. Many of them weren’t truly communist, either. Well, that’s kinda the thing. Back in the Cold War a lot of bureaucrats, politicians and right-wingers learned they could bamboozle the American public by justifying anyting they wanted to do as “fighting Communism” and anyone they wanted to crush as “Communists.” It was obvious bullshit to a lot of moderate and liberal Americans even then, but that didn’t mean it didn’t fool conservative Americans and the dumber moderates out there. You have to take all claims of “Communism” from those days with several huge grains of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/207 "2006-02-26T17:21:37Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > It was obvious bullshit to a lot of moderate and liberal Americans even then, but that didn’t mean it didn’t fool conservative Americans and the dumber moderates out there. Utter bullshit. No one was more fooled by McCarthy than liberal reporter Jack Anderson, who even helped the Senator get dope on alleged Communists in exchange for dope on Senators. This included listening on extensions to converstations McCarthy had with members on the Hill. It was also liberal reporter Hank Greenspun who, when it started becoming safe to go after McCarthy, decided to focus on his alleged homosexual relation with Roy Cohen, rather than his abuses of power. Meanwhile, It was Dwight Eisenhour, Republican president, and that conservative bastion, the US Army, that brought McCarthy down, culminating with the Army’s Attorney General, Joseph Welch, who lobbed his famous line during live televised Senate hearings: “You’ve done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?” ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/208 "2006-02-26T17:24:55Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > The problem is though, they weren’t defensible, for the most part. We condemned many people to tyrannical, brutal dictatorships, all in the name of “fighting communism”. A lot of the regimes we supported were far, far worse than the “communists” we overthrew. Cite? I’m not disputing that we propped up some very bad regimes, but were they really any worse than the other lot? For instance, how many did the North Vietnamese kill vs. the South Vietnamese? And what would the cost of not overthrowing these communist regimes? > [@](#): > > Many of them weren’t truly communist, either It would not surprise me that both sides were usually simply out for power. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/209 "2006-02-26T17:26:55Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Utter bullshit. No one was more fooled by McCarthy than liberal reporter Jack Anderson, who even helped the Senator get dope on alleged Communists in exchange for dope on Senators. This included listening on extensions to converstations McCarthy had with members on the Hill. It was also liberal reporter Hank Greenspun who, when it started becoming safe to go after McCarthy, decided to focus on his alleged homosexual relation with Roy Cohen, rather than his abuses of power. Meanwhile, It was Dwight Eisenhour, Republican president, and that conservative bastion, the US Army, that brought McCarthy down, culminating with the Army’s Attorney General, Joseph Welch, who lobbed his famous line during live televised Senate hearings: “You’ve done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?” **Lib** , we’re not talking about McCarthy here. We’re talking about the support of murderous dictators all in the name of “fighting communism.” And yes, there were “liberals” who did this too. JFK, LBJ, FDR, the whole “alphabet soup”, if you will. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/210 "2006-02-26T17:28:58Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Cite? > > I’m not disputing that we propped up some very bad regimes, but were they really any worse than the other lot? For instance, how many did the North Vietnamese kill vs. the South Vietnamese? > > And what would the cost of not overthrowing these communist regimes? > It would not surprise me that both sides were usually simply out for power. Simul-post. I’ll have to get back to you on cites, but overthrowing the Arbenz government in Guatemala, claiming Arbenz was a “communist” simply because of his policy on land reform. We replaced it with a military dictatorship. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/211 "2006-02-26T17:35:38Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Lib** , we’re not talking about McCarthy here. We’re talking about the support of murderous dictators all in the name of “fighting communism.” > > And yes, there were “liberals” who did this too. JFK, LBJ, FDR, the whole “alphabet soup”, if you will. 😉 Sorry for butting in, then. Still, the information about McCarthy is important, and with respect to the OP, one might say that Eisenhour’s rather longsuffering tolerance of him was a blunder. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/212 "2006-02-26T17:37:16Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Sorry for butting in, then. Still, the information about McCarthy is important, and with respect to the OP, one might say that Eisenhour’s rather longsuffering tolerance of him was a blunder. Oh absolutely! Hey-wadda ya know-we agree on something! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/213 "2006-02-26T19:25:16Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > It wasn’t? You don’t think the Americans had an interest in maintaining Western control over the Iranian oil industry? Why would the U.S. have any legitimate “interest” in maintaining control over another country’s oil industry? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/214 "2006-02-26T19:27:06Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > If I were Carter, I’d slap somebody. The ridiciulous allegation of conspiracy that you hold credible is an insult to him. Why is bringing up the “October Surprise” theory an insult to **Carter?!** ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/215 "2006-02-27T00:15:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why is bringing up the “October Surprise” theory an insult to **Carter?!** I don’t know. Ask someone who said that. What I said, meanwhile, is that it is an insult to him to presume \*that he could not win the election \* without a hostage rescue. Bringing up the October Surprise theory != he could not win the election. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/216 "2006-02-27T02:50:13Z")
**Age Quod Aegis** , tell me, did you really post this with a straight face? > [@](#): > > You might want to settle down before you get your skirt over your head. Or at least get a better grip on the facts. > > > [@Neurotik](#): > > > > The government was not communist. > > From Wikipedia (which is always risky, but they at least show that there are opinions that disagree with you): > > > [@](#): > > > > Unable to resolve the issue singlehandedly due to its post second world war problems, Britain looked towards the United States to settle the issue. The United States was falsely informed that Mossadegh was increasingly _turning towards communism and was moving Iran towards the Soviet sphere at a time of high cold war fears._ Did you even read that quotation before you posted it? I assume you did, since you emphasized part of it. But if you read not even 10 words before what you emphasized, you get to the crux of the quote: “falsely informed.” Please come up with a better cite than one that outright disagrees with you to support your “Mossadegh was a Communist” assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/217 "2006-02-27T04:57:19Z")
Wonderful. You accuse me of not reading the entire quote I posted, but apparently can’t be bothered to read my entire post before commenting. [sigh] ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/218 "2006-02-27T06:21:44Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > Wonderful. You accuse me of not reading the entire quote I posted, but apparently can’t be bothered to read my entire post before commenting. [sigh] Actually, I did read the entire post. It’s just that the temerity of this one bit was so amazing that I had to respond to it. Even your second Wikipedia quote merely discusses “allegations” that Mossadegh was Communist, without any actual support. And furthermore, you handwave away the part that I noted by saying that some people believe the British were telling the truth. Without a cite! Basically, your citation for this claim is weak, and I found it particularly funny that you chose to highlight the first Wikipedia quote (and even emphasize it in a way that made it appear to support your point) despite the fact that it plainly disagreed with you. As to allying with the Communist party: India’s current Congress-led government is in power by dint of allying with some of the Communist parties there. Is this an indication that India is going to go Communist? Or is it an indication that politics makes strange bedfellows? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/219 "2006-02-27T23:10:06Z")
> [@MilTan](#): > > As to allying with the Communist party: India’s current Congress-led government is in power by dint of allying with some of the Communist parties there. Is this an indication that India is going to go Communist? Or is it an indication that politics makes strange bedfellows? The ANC has been allied with the Communist Party since Apartheid ended, but South Africa appears no closer to becoming a Communist country. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152/220 "2006-02-28T00:12:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The ANC has been allied with the Communist Party since Apartheid ended, but South Africa appears no closer to becoming a Communist country. Part of that, though, is that the Soviet Union is gone, so Communist parties have more independence now and aren’t just Soviet fronts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ten-worst-presidential-blunders-what-do-you-think/345152.md?page=12)