# Tenant question: At what temperature does lack of heat become a crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 29, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459 "2012-11-29T13:41:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/1 "2012-11-29T13:41:59Z")
Let’s assume, hypothetically, that I live in an apartment where the heater isn’t working, and the landlord refuses to fix it or hasn’t gotten around to it. It’s winter and it’s getting COLD both indoors and out. At what temperature does failure to provide heat for the tenant become a crime? State of residence: California. (Please, no jokes…) ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/2 "2012-11-29T13:50:28Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Let’s assume, hypothetically, that I live in an apartment where the heater isn’t working, and the landlord refuses to fix it or hasn’t gotten around to it. It’s winter and it’s getting COLD both indoors and out. > > At what temperature does failure to provide heat for the tenant become a crime? > > State of residence: California. (Please, no jokes…) From this California state Landlord Tenant guide (page 37) [http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/catenant.pdf](http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/catenant.pdf) > [@](#): > > A dwelling also may be considered > uninhabitable (unlivable) if it substantially lacks > any of the following: > heating facilities in good working order. That claim cites the Civil Code Section 1941.1. Houses need heat. I don’t see any reason your landlord wouldn’t be in breach for not having the heat working simply because it’s not cold enough out - that doesn’t make any sense. Also note that he’s breaching an implied warranty that the residence will be habitable. It’s not a crime. Note the Civil Code Section 1941.1, not criminal code. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/3 "2012-11-29T14:21:28Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > That claim cites the Civil Code Section 1941.1. Houses need heat. I don’t see any reason your landlord wouldn’t be in breach for not having the heat working simply because it’s not cold enough out - that doesn’t make any sense. Thanks for the cite. Does that mean refusal to provide a working heater is a violation, even during the summer? (Or A/C, during winter?) What if the heater was in fact operational, but the thermostat was locked, or the landlord/manager (assuming he or she lives in the same apartment) always turns the heat off whenever the tenant turns it on? Would actual temperature matter? Point taken about criminal vs. civil law – I assume that means the tenant’s only recourse is to file a lawsuit, or withhold rent in an escrow account, correct? ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/4 "2012-11-29T14:50:24Z")
Page 41 of that handbook lists some available “remedies”. In addition to withholding rent, you could pay for the repairs yourself and deduct the cost from your rent. Or you could simply move out without facing penalties for breaking your lease early (but be prepared for a small-claims fight to get your deposit back). What city do you live in? There are often local housing codes and inspection bodies, particularly in big cities. You might be able to get a city housing inspector to come to your place and declare your place officially uninhabitable. Actually your first step should be a formal letter to your landlord that cites specific violations and threatens to withhold rent if the problem isn’t fixed. That might motivate him to give you sufficient heat. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/5 "2012-11-29T15:26:34Z")
Adding this to the laundry list of problems you’ve had with your co-tenant, you should consider moving. California has some of the strongest pro-tenant laws in the country. If you’re in a lease, you can probably break it without penalty. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/6 "2012-11-29T16:21:27Z")
Thank you all. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/7 "2012-11-29T16:28:39Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Thanks for the cite. Does that mean refusal to provide a working heater is a violation, even during the summer? (Or A/C, during winter?) > > What if the heater was in fact operational, but the thermostat was locked, or the landlord/manager (assuming he or she lives in the same apartment) always turns the heat off whenever the tenant turns it on? Would actual temperature matter? > > Point taken about criminal vs. civil law – I assume that means the tenant’s only recourse is to file a lawsuit, or withhold rent in an escrow account, correct? As \*\*lazybratsche \*\*pointed out, you should fix the heat at your expense after documenting in writing that it’s broken and informing the landlord of your intention to fix it. Then keep records of the work was done. Deduct the cost from the rent. Send copies of the receipt with your lower rent payment. If you keep the rent in escrow you’re going to be cold in the meantime. I’m not a lawyer or Californian but I’ve been to district court many times as a landlord in Pennsylvania. It’s very casual, much more like Judge Judy than Law and Order. I can’t imagine the district justice giving any weight to the heat being broken during the summer unless it was a boiler that provided hot water too. Almost every time I’ve evicted someone and we had to go to court they had some crazy excuse for why they didn’t pay rent. Usually it was MUCH better than having no heat in the dead of summer, and it never changed anything. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/8 "2012-11-29T16:54:22Z")
Is there a working fireplace in your house? Because it _may_ give the landlady a pass, check carefully. Isn’t the landlady your Mom? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/9 "2012-11-29T17:25:09Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Isn’t the landlady your Mom? Make sure mom isn’t served till after you’ve unwrapped your xmas presents! ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/10 "2012-11-29T17:39:05Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Is there a working fireplace in your house? Because it _may_ give the landlady a pass, check carefully. > > Isn’t the landlady your Mom? No, as I recall. Half-mom, if such a relationship exists. She’s his half-brother’s mother, and they share a father. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/11 "2012-11-29T20:47:13Z")
It sounds like the thermostat is fine, it’s just that his psychotic half brother (WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE HIS EVIL TWIN-- DUN DUN DUNNNNN) just keeps turning it off. ---
**Author:** ![biqu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@biqu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biqu)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/12 "2012-11-29T23:22:43Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > I’m not a lawyer or Californian but I’ve been to district court many times as a landlord in Pennsylvania. It’s very casual, much more like Judge Judy than Law and Order. I can’t imagine the district justice giving any weight to the heat being broken during the summer unless it was a boiler that provided hot water too. Almost every time I’ve evicted someone and we had to go to court they had some crazy excuse for why they didn’t pay rent. Usually it was MUCH better than having no heat in the dead of summer, and it never changed anything. Forgive the hijack, but your experience sounds like just the kind of background I could benefit from when I take my tenants/housemates to district court in two weeks. Do you think any of the judges you’ve met over the years would look kindly on any of the following excuses? 1. The landlord verbally agreed to a lower rent two months ago (to compensate for interruption of Internet service), but now is demanding the agreed-upon price despite a voice recording of his (alcohol-influenced) acquiescing to a $250 discount for the entire remainder of the lease. Note: no written contract accompanies this negotiation. 2. The landlord made no prohibition against pets in the house, but now demands the full rent rather than the discounted-by-$250 amount, claiming that increased utilities (which were not billed separately) necessary for cleaning up after a dog were not anticipated based on the initial rental application interview. If landlord is so clueless as to commit to a steep deduction in an act of drunken magnanimity and to have no suspicion of our soft spot for unwanted animals, why should we pay the price for his folly? 3. Landlord pitched the idea of a communal kitchen where all ingredients would be shared on a first-come, first-served basis, so as to minimize redundant purchases and waste of unattended foods. We’re much more comfortable buying and prepping foods on an individual basis, and we don’t appreciate the equivalency he’s making between our unanticipated use of extra utilities (for keeping a dog) and his unanticipated commandeering of such ingredients as maple syrup and pecans. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/13 "2012-11-30T00:08:01Z")
> [@biqu](#): > > his unanticipated commandeering of such ingredients as maple syrup and pecans. Magic Eight Ball says: > [@](#): > > “you have a future in day trading.” ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenant-question-at-what-temperature-does-lack-of-heat-become-a-crime/642459/14 "2012-11-30T00:11:31Z")
OP answered. Closed. **samclem** , moderator