Tenant's Rights and Non-Rent-Paying Young Adult Children in Parents' Home

[bienville]

@watchwolf49

I’m assuming the mother is on board with all this … if not … perhaps a divorce attorney is the better option … if she’s tolerant of this bullshit, then the OP can look forward to this bullshit the rest of his life.

The mother is the one who is especially furious about the whole thing. She’s the one who laid down the complete banning when I just thought a review of the rules was in order (regarding how frequently he can be here). The mother is the one talking about a restraining order (although, I don’t know on what grounds we could get one if he’s not here illegally and there’s been no violence).

My concerns have arisen more based on the behavior since the banning has been in place. He knows he’s not welcome but keeps coming anyway and he’s been directly rude to me when confronted about it. That’s the point at which I’ve gotten really pissed off and have started wondering about options involving the police.
Unrelated note: You really think a girl being an asshole about boyfriend matters at age 18 is an indication that she’ll be an asshole about all matters for the rest of her life?
:dubious:

@astro

There are legalities and there are practical matters of relationships. While you do not explicitly say it, per the length of tenancy assumedly you and the mother are in some sort of long term relationship, and this daughter whom you have been residing with from 13 to (now) 18 is effectively a defacto adult stepkid.

I’ve known the two daughters since they were in utero and moved in when their mother wasn’t able to make ends meet as she began the whole single parent thing. I moved in to make sure the girls were raised in relative stability. My relationship with the daughter is far more analogous to uncle than it is to step parent.

And as such, now that this one (the younger daughter) has finished high school …

@LSLGuy

An interesting question I’ve not considered is what would happen if the grown-ups simply announced that they were moving to a new location, got a new lease, ended the old one, and left the adult child at the curb that way.

This is basically what’s on the horizon anyway. I’ve been looking for a new job since about January, a job further north and closer to where I want to live. When I find a new job, I’ll commute for a while as I keep weekend hours at my current job until I’ve saved up some decent money for the move.

So, even without the drama, my plan to move has been New Job + 2 Months.

@astro

As a side note the daughter needs to be on industrial level birth control at this point even if you have to drive her to the clinic and put it on your credit card.

Yeesh! She’s been on industrial strength birth control since she was 15. What do you think we are, savages?

One question I’m especially interested in getting an answer to:

@bienville

Can she legally give him permission to enter when she is not home if that permission is in conflict with her mother and I while her mother and I are on the premises?

I work nights and sleep during the day while the mother is at work. There have been a few times that the boyfriend has let himself in during the day while I’m sleeping- this is when he and I have had our serious altercations. The fact that it’s happened twice that I’ve woken up and noticed makes me know I have no idea of when it’s happened and I haven’t woken up.

He’s entering with the daughter’s permission …but she’s not on the premises.
So, he’s got permission from a legal resident of the apartment, but that particular legal resident is not here but I am.

I know everyone here will personally agree that my wishes outweigh her invitation, but do my wishes legally negate the permission that she gave him to enter?

@Saint_Cad

First of all, what state are you in as YMMV based on jurisdiction.

I still live in California, in Orange County, just like I did when I wrote the OP. I haven’t moved yet.

[watchwolf49]

Change the locks, just make sure the landlord gets a key and strict instructions to not let the boyfriend in. Legal, smegal … judges have an intense distaste for 18-year-old children suing their parents. Don’t be afraid to contact the police, they’d be happy to give you advice as long as you don’t expect them to do anything about this situation.

[doreen]

@watchwolf49

Most written rental agreements have a clause prohibiting sub-letting. Guests are allowed, but there may be a time limit on how long they can stay, for example “3 days/night in any 1 month period without landlord approval”. I highlighted the phrase above to point out this is not a right of the tenant if the rental agreement does prohibit sub-letting, the landlord retains this right to himself.

It depends- where I live, if I rent an apartment or house I have a legal right to have a roommate move in. I must inform the landlord of the roommate’s name, but permission is not needed.

This situation appears to be where the “guest” is the daughter, and the daughter has landlord permission to reside there longer than the time allowed. I’m afraid filing an eviction lawsuit here will just be thrown out, no one is violating the Landlord/Tenant Laws.

Eviction proceedings don’t necessarily have anything to d with previous violations of landlord-tenant laws. If my landlord doesn’t renew my lease, and I don’t leave voluntarily, he has to file an eviction proceeding to get the marshal to remove my belongings from the premises etc. He will be violating landlord-tenant law if he moves my possessions and changes the locks without first obtaining a court order for my eviction.

This smells more like civil trespassing, the daughter as a “guest” cannot invite anyone she pleases into the dwelling, only the tenants that signed the rental agreement can invite guests.

I was talking about the daughter as a “tenant”- even if she is treated as a tenant for certain purposes where the OP lives ( and she may be) that doesn’t necessarily mean she is treated as a tenant for all purposes. It is possible that the OP cannot force her to leave without going through an eviction proceeding (treated as a tenant) - but that a court would dismiss any claim she made that the OP wouldn’t allow her to have guests ( not treated as a tenant).
OP I just noticed your location- I don’t know if you own or rent, but you should take a look at this - it seems that the situation of a lodger is not always treated the same as that of a tenant.
http://ocsd.org/divisions/custody/court/civil/lodgers

[Colibri]

Legal advice is best suited to IMHO.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[astro]

@bienville

One question I’m especially interested in getting an answer to:

I work nights and sleep during the day while the mother is at work. There have been a few times that the boyfriend has let himself in during the day while I’m sleeping- this is when he and I have had our serious altercations. The fact that it’s happened twice that I’ve woken up and noticed makes me know I have no idea of when it’s happened and I haven’t woken up.

He’s entering with the daughter’s permission …but she’s not on the premises.
So, he’s got permission from a legal resident of the apartment, but that particular legal resident is not here but I am.

I know everyone here will personally agree that my wishes outweigh her invitation, but do my wishes legally negate the permission that she gave him to enter?

Wait a minute… hold the fucking presses… he is entering YOUR apartment without your say so and while the daughter is not even around… and is giving you lip when you confront him on this because “she told him he could”. He did this multiple times and continues to hang around and here we are chattering about all these externalities.

Well… I … um… honestly … that level of epic disrespect for you by her and him is beyond any conceivable level of tolerance. You are being literally spat upon. Her shit would be in suitcase on the sidewalk by the end of the day.

[bienville]

@astro

beyond any conceivable level of tolerance.

Well, yeah, obviously. But I’m trying to determine what is beyond the level of legality.
I’m trying to determine at what point I have the support of the law in taking action against him.

[astro]

@bienville

Well, yeah, obviously. But I’m trying to determine what is beyond the level of legality.
I’m trying to determine at what point I have the support of the law in taking action against him.

HE is not really your problem SHE is. You have a non-related adult male who apparently feels he has entre and invitation into your residence whether you, one of the heads of the household like it not. That level of arrogance and disrespect flows through him directly from the daughter. In many areas he would be at real risk of being shot pulling this shit. You have an adult male invitee of a guest who is willing to confront and challenge you in your own residence.

Unless you are able to get the mom to boot the daughter (and I really doubt this will happen when the rubber meets the road) more or less immediately this kind of mess is beyond untangling and fixing. I’d get out the way and find somewhere else to live. This is a hair trigger violent confrontation waiting to happen and I don’t see good outcomes for you as the on site male.

[HelenGawn]

You should contact the landlord that the girl is now eighteen. He will almost certainly demand she be on the lease.

If she’s pissing off the neighbors, she can get you all evicted.

It seems like whatever permission she has given him can be revoked if she is not present. You can have him arrested for trespassing and forcibly removed.

[Alley_Dweller]

@LSLGuy

ETA: @watchwolf49

An interesting question I’ve not considered is what would happen if the grown-ups simply announced that they were moving to a new location, got a new lease, ended the old one, and left the adult child at the curb that way.

It amounts practically to the same thing: involuntary eviction of the adult child. But I suspect it falls into a completely different category legally.

Landlord-tenant law varies wildly between different states. You are in Florida, the OP is in California. So I’m going to cite a similar case in Illinois, which has one of the strictest landlord-tenant laws in the country.

An adult man leased an apartment. The lease required him to get permission from the landlord in order to let anyone live in his apartment. The man invited his mother to move in. The man moved out, but his mother stayed behind. When the landlord found out she was living there (when she tried to make arrangements to pay rent), he had her arrested under a municipal trespassing statute. She was convicted and appealed to the appeals court for the fourth Illinois district.

The appeals court held that the trespassing statute did not apply to guests invited by the lessee and that the only way to evict her was to get an eviction order. “The Forcible Entry Act provides the complete remedy at law for settling such disputes.”

City of Quincy v. Daniels, 615 N.E.2d 839 (Ill. App. Ct. 1993)

[analogqueen]

Move.

[astro]

Unrelated note: You really think a girl being an asshole about boyfriend matters at age 18 is an indication that she’ll be an asshole about all matters for the rest of her life?

You are being treated like a piece of Kleenex by her which is a bit odd if you have an 8 year history with her as an assumedly helpful uncle type presence, but there are numerous scenarios in the news where a teenage girl in love plots to kill both dutiful parents because they forbid her from seeing her boyfriend, so your mileage varies.

That she allows her BF access to your apartment after being explicitly told “no” by you and her mother is an indicator she does not give a rat’s ass what other people think and frankly it’s the main reason I’m suggesting you move vs trying to work this out legally. Unless there are relatives willing to take her in (and with her attitude she will likely be bouncing back to you shortly anyway) on a practical level where is an 18 year old going to go? You have said nothing about going away to college so I assume that’s not in the near term future. Mama can huff and puff about her being booted but I assure that after that Kabuki dance is over and the kid cries some crocodile tears that kid is going nowhere and if she is there so will be the mouthy, disrespectful and eventually dangerous boyfriend.

This is going to turn messy, legally expensive and potentially dangerous. You need to move on.

[Tim_T-Bonham.net]

I see 3 possible ways to deal with this (in order of increasing severity):

@Mighty_Mouse

There’s no violence or anything (thought they sometimes have screaming, but nonphysical, fights in the middle of the night)

Call the cops. Every time. At the very least, they will force him to leave. They might actually arrest him for disturbing the peace or even domestic violence. Especially the 2md or 3rd time.

@bienville

I work nights and sleep during the day while the mother is at work. There have been a few times that the boyfriend has let himself in during the day while I’m sleeping- this is when he and I have had our serious altercations. The fact that it’s happened twice that I’ve woken up and noticed makes me know I have no idea of when it’s happened and I haven’t woken up.

Again, call the cops. They will make him leave, or arrest him for trespassing. His claim that the daughter invited him won’t impress them much when she isn’t there. And isn’t even on the lease herself.

@bienville

I work nights and sleep during the day while the mother is at work. There have been a few times that the boyfriend has let himself in during the day while I’m sleeping

Option 3: you wake up to find someone breaking into your home, so you pull the pistol out from under your pillow and shoot him. If you think he might someday make a decent husband for the girl, aim only to wound him (but he doesn’t sound like he’s worth that).

[kiz]

@hajario

This is probably the cleanest way to handle it. The adult daughter has no rights at a new place where you move. She could be allowed at the new place if she signs a contract for how she will behave along with the consequences for breaking the contract.

Moving sucks but what is worse?

One of my coworkers had a similar issue except that it was her house and her son wasn’t financially contributing anything. She put the house up for sale rather than face foreclosure. Now she’s in her own apartment and her son has had no choice but to find his own place. He eventually did and is now the poster child for paying rent on time. Amazing what happens when one is kicked to the curb, eh?