# Tenet bites back **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 17, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172 "2003-07-17T16:25:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TheMemeWarrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TheMemeWarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMemeWarrior)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/1 "2003-07-17T16:25:54Z")
[http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=/ap/20030717/ap\_on\_go\_co/us\_iraq\_49](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=/ap/20030717/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq_49) Tenet tells congess a White house official inisisted the sixteen words get into the state of the union. Congressman can’t say who the mystery offical is but who wnats to guess at the next fallguy? Rice probably but it could even be Cheney, I do love a good mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/2 "2003-07-17T17:04:35Z")
Rice would be thrown out before Cheney. Rice is far more expendible to the goals of the administration. ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/3 "2003-07-17T17:06:12Z")
$5 says it’s Cheney. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/4 "2003-07-17T17:10:25Z")
buck fifty says we’ll never know ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/5 "2003-07-17T17:20:32Z")
Rice intends to leave after the election anyway. The White House will never cop to this, though. Right now it sounds like they’re just trying to smear Durbin: > [@](#): > > Sen. Dick Durbin, who was present for a 4 1/2-hour appearance by Tenet behind closed doors with Intelligence Committee members Wednesday, said Tenet named the official. But the Illinois Democrat said that person’s identity could not be revealed because of the confidentiality of the proceedings. > White House spokesman Scott McClellan was quick to dispute Durbin’s account. “That characterization is nonsense. It’s not surprising, coming from someone who was in a rather small minority in Congress who did not support the action we took,” McClellan told reporters. (Um… that “minority” turned out to be _correct_, didn’t they dickbag?) Durbin was not the only member of congress present at Tenet’s confession. If Tenet actually fingered one of the Bushistas (and my guess is that it was Cheney or possibly Rove) then the WH is going to have to come up with something better than just sliming Turbin. I only wish the tv media would give this “Yellowcake” scandal the same kind of obsessive attention that they gave to Clinton’s knob-job. Fox, in particular, gets more desperately apologist and sycophantic every day. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/6 "2003-07-17T18:09:28Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > Sen. Dick Durbin, who was present for a 4 1/2-hour appearance by Tenet behind closed doors with Intelligence Committee members Wednesday, said Tenet named the official. But the Illinois Democrat said that person’s identity could not be revealed because of the confidentiality of the proceedings. > > ## White House spokesman Scott McClellan was quick to dispute Durbin’s account. “That characterization is nonsense. It’s not surprising, coming from someone who was in a rather small minority in Congress who did not support the action we took,” McClellan told reporters. > > (Um… that “minority” turned out to be correct, didn’t they dickbag?) No, I think he was referring to the war in Iraq, not the inclusion of the uranium story in the State of the Union address. Durbin did not support the war in Iraq. Unless you are characterizing everyone who supported the war in Iraq as a “dickbag”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/7 "2003-07-17T18:19:15Z")
1.) I was saying that those who opposed the war in Iraq turned out to be correct. 2.) McClellan is a “dickbag” because he is trying to insinuate that opposing the war in Iraq somehow compromises Durbin’s integrity. It’s a pure _ad hominem_, it’s not a defense. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/8 "2003-07-17T18:22:39Z")
My dickbag, and dickbags everywhere, resent being associated with politicians. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/9 "2003-07-17T18:25:10Z")
“The president has within his ranks on staff some person who was willing to spin and hype and exaggerate and cut corners on the most important speech the president delivers in any given year,” Mr. Durbin said… …within his ranks on staff… Cheney’s not really on staff is he? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/10 "2003-07-17T18:36:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*1.) I was saying that those who opposed the war in Iraq turned out to be correct. > \*\* Interestingly enough, Durbin was not “correct” (by your standards) on his position on Iraq before the war began. [He was quite sure that Saddam had WMD, and supported military action (providing that it was not a Republican taking such action).](http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/922723/posts) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\* > 2.) McClellan is a “dickbag” because he is trying to insinuate that opposing the war in Iraq somehow compromises Durbin’s integrity. It’s a pure _ad hominem_, it’s not a defense. \*\* Not exactly. What McClellan is saying is that Durbin is mischaracterizing what was said at the confidential hearing. It is not, IOW, opposition to military action in Iraq that compromises Durbin’s integrity, it is opposing it when Bush is President and supporting it when Clinton was President. That, and making allegedly false statements about a hearing, knowing that the White House could not dispute it without compromising security. It was a cheap shot, in McClellan’s opinion. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![TheMemeWarrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TheMemeWarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMemeWarrior)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/11 "2003-07-17T18:45:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*What McClellan is saying is that Durbin is mischaracterizing what was said at the confidential hearing. > \*\* interesting given that McClellan wasn’t there and none of the republicans present have offered a contrary view. Instead of saying how Durbin misprepresented the truth he attacked Durbin for his position on the war and for being the member of a minority party. C’mon there is no way some of you would have accepted a cheap dodge like this from the Clinton Whitehouse. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/12 "2003-07-17T18:47:16Z")
**Shodan** , Poor cite. Just because he supported the **airstrikes** in 1998 and opposed a **full-scale invasion** in 2003 doesn’t mean that the decision to supportone and oppose the other is the partisan decision that you’re portraying it as. It may well be that he would’ve either, opposed a **full-scale invasion** in 1998, or supported **airstrikes** in 2003. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/13 "2003-07-17T18:58:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > I only wish the tv media would give this “Yellowcake” scandal the same kind of obsessive attention that they gave to Clinton’s knob-job. Bush just sent American soldiers to their death based on lies; it’s not like he did anything REALLY HORRIBLE, like oral sex.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/14 "2003-07-17T19:00:43Z")
In what way has Durbin “mischaracterized” the hearing? It’s easy to say that, isn’t it? Let’s hear McClellan actually deny the substance of what Durbin is saying rather than resorting to partisan smears. It’s not like the WH has any credibility left in its carefully parsed denials any more. Incidentally, Durbin was _correct_ that Bush’s motives could not be trusted with regards to Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![tomyoung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@tomyoung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomyoung)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/15 "2003-07-17T19:09:32Z")
MSNBC says the White House official pushing for the Africa line is someone named Robert Joseph. Let’s see if it ends there. > [@](#): > > Durbin said that during the closed-door hearing, Tenet told the lawmakers that a White House official insisted the State of the Union address include the assertion about Saddam Hussein’s nuclear intentions. Durbin said that person’s identity could not be revealed because of the confidentiality of the proceedings, but sources, who spoke with NBC News on condition of anonymity, said that Tenet “reluctantly” identified the official as National Security Council member Robert Joseph. Once source said that the revelation led to a series of questions about Joseph’s role. [http://www.msnbc.com/news/937524.asp?0cv=CA01](http://www.msnbc.com/news/937524.asp?0cv=CA01) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/16 "2003-07-17T19:14:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\* > Incidentally, Durbin was _correct_ that Bush’s motives could not be trusted with regards to Iraq. \*\* You’ve misread the link. The press release is from 1998. He doesn’t say that he doesn’t trust the president. He says that he calls on those who do to “join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad.” ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/17 "2003-07-17T19:19:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomyoung \* > \*\*MSNBC says the White House official pushing for the Africa line is someone named Robert Joseph. Let’s see if it ends there. > > [http://www.msnbc.com/news/937524.asp?0cv=CA01](http://www.msnbc.com/news/937524.asp?0cv=CA01) \*\* This must be the wrong link. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/18 "2003-07-17T19:24:21Z")
Try this’n > [@](#): > > **[Durbin Says W.House Pushed for Disputed Iraq Charge](http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=3109739)** > > Durbin would not name the person, whose name emerged in the secret hearing, but a U.S. official said National Security Council weapons of mass destruction expert Robert Joseph was involved in discussions with the CIA about the speech. > > “It wasn’t Tenet who named anyone, but in response to questioning, other agency officials said that the conversations were with **Robert Joseph of the National Security Council staff** ,” a U.S. official told Reuters on condition of anonymity. ---
**Author:** ![tomyoung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@tomyoung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomyoung)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/19 "2003-07-17T20:12:10Z")
CNN says Joseph is denying it. > [@](#): > > The NSC official in charge of vetting the sections on WMD, Special Assistant to the President Robert Joseph, denied through a spokesman that he said it was O.K. to use the line as long as it was sourced to British intelligence. [Story](http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/14/timep.trust.tm/) _SimonX_, what was wrong with my last link? It works fine on my end… ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172/20 "2003-07-17T20:12:17Z")
Robert G. Joseph reports to Rice. He is: [http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/nsc.htm](http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/nsc.htm) > [@](#): > > Senior Director for Proliferation Strategy, Counterproliferation and Homeland Defense > ROBERT JOSEPH > > National Security Advisor Dr. Condoleezza Rice announced February 22 the appointment of Robert G. Joseph as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Proliferation Strategy, Counterproliferation and Homeland Defense, effective January 22, 2001. > > Prior to joining the National Security Council staff, Dr. Joseph served as a Professor of National Security Studies and Director of the Center for Counterproliferation Research at the National Defense University. In the previous Bush Administration, he held the positions of U.S. Commissioner to the Standing Consultative Commission (ABM Treaty) and Ambassador to the U.S.-Russian Consultative Commission on Nuclear Testing. In the Reagan Administration, he held several positions within the Office of the Secretary of Defense, including Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy and Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Nuclear Forces and Arms Control Policy. > > Dr. Joseph has taught at Carleton College and the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy. He holds a Ph.D. from Columbia University and an M.A. from the University of Chicago. Time Magazine on Robert Joseph and the Niger-allegation: [http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101030721/story2.html](http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101030721/story2.html) > [@](#): > > Two senior Administration officials tell TIME that in a January conversation with a key National Security Council (NSC) official just a few days before the speech [State of the Union], a top CIA analyst named Alan Foley objected to including the allegation in the speech. The NSC official in charge of vetting the sections on WMD, Special Assistant to the President Robert Joseph, denied through a spokesman that he said it was O.K. to use the line as long as it was sourced to British intelligence. He did an interesting interview about nuclear wepons, Iraq, Iran, China, and “the problem” North Korea, to the CNS: [http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/npr/vol08/83/jos83.htm](http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/npr/vol08/83/jos83.htm) Anyway, I guess we will be hearing more about Robert in the next days. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenet-bites-back/189172.md?page=2)