# Tens of Thousands March in Baghdad **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 11, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262 "2003-12-11T03:48:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/1 "2003-12-11T03:48:45Z")
I don’t know if you’ve heard, but there were mass demonstrations in Iraq today. Al Jazeerah says there may have been 10,000 people there. Representatives from almost all the political parties. Kurds, Sunnis, and Shia all marched in solidarity. So why isn’t this big news? I can’t find a single report of this on TV so far, or in any of the major newspapers. Maybe it’s because it’s a march [against Terrorism and in support of reconstruction and the United States](http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/) That’s right - a huge demonstration against the insurgents and in favor of the U.S. led reconstruction efforts. From the Iraqi website: > [@](#): > > The rallies today proved to be a major success. I didn’t expect anything even close to this. It was probably the largest demonstration in Baghdad for months. It wasn’t just against terrorism. It was against Arab media, against the interference of neighbouring countries, against dictatorships, against Wahhabism, against oppression, and of course against the Ba’ath and Saddam. Against the Arab media. Against Wahhabists. And for democracy. This would seem to me to be amazingly good news, and a very welcome development. So why is no one talking about this? Here are some links to some photo albums of the demonstrations: [http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/10dec.html](http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/10dec.html) [http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/10dec2.html](http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/10dec2.html) [http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/10dec3.html](http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/10dec3.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/2 "2003-12-11T04:00:24Z")
It must be that liberal media **Sam**. Why, its even creeped into your links! Yes! The Perfidious Liars are hard at work. All the photos of the crowds carrying giant photos of GeeDubya garlanded with flowers have been suppressed! But they managed to get in the couple or three people, here and there, that are carrying pictures of _mullahs_ or _ayatollahs_. Well, maybe more than two or three. They were probably bribed. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/3 "2003-12-11T04:27:59Z")
Well, here’s a story about it that I found after five seconds of searching: [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031210/wl\_mideast\_afp/iraq\_us\_terror\_demo\_031210162701](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031210/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_us_terror_demo_031210162701) But I just can’t see how it can be possible that _ten thousand_ joined the demonstration.[Here](http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/31.JPG) is the picture that I found that seemed to have the most people in it, but that, to me, looks like several hundred to eh, maybe 1,500, tops. Is this demonstration news? Yes, it seems to be an interesting development that folks like the INC and Communists can join each other in the streets. But as far as Iraq goes, I think the desertion of members of the New Iraqi Army is far more important news about the status of the US occupation of Iraq. And as far as what gets covered on TV, I haven’t heard any reports whatsoever of Israeli-Palestinian violence in probably a couple of weeks. I guess that news isn’t good enough for a 26-minute program. But that’s why I read newspapers. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/4 "2003-12-11T04:28:53Z")
[http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/iraq\_us\_demo](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/iraq_us_demo) Well it is, but that blog claims 10,000 protesters, in the AFP report, only 1000 were reported. I would still say I am supportive of that protest, but I am not impressed, in many occasions I have seen the images of attacks to American soldiers being cheered by bystanders, that some leaders say are supportive of the Americans is laudable, but I think it will be meaningful only when everybody stops cheering attacks. **elucidator** I also think there is no need to bribe anyone, no matter what is the nature for an invation, one will always find people willing to help the conquerors, specially the ones that opposed the former regime. IMO, I still see an uphill battle to gain the trust of the Iraqis, acting like a colonial power (like in the contracts case) does not help. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/5 "2003-12-11T04:44:59Z")
Let’s see… from “ **Tens of Thousands** ” in the thread title to “may have been 10,000” in the OP to “about 1,000” in the AFP story linked above. **Sam** , maybe the eeeeevil liberal media hasn’t reported this yet because they’re waiting for accurate numbers? Those do matter to some. Nah. Must be all that eeeeeeevil lib’ralisum. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/6 "2003-12-11T05:06:10Z")
Al Jazeerah said 10,000, apparently. I actually shouldn’t have said “Tens of Thousands” in the title. My bad. Clearly there were thousands of people there, though. Just look at the images. > [@](#): > > Sam, maybe the eeeeevil liberal media hasn’t reported this yet because they’re waiting for accurate numbers? Those do matter to some. You mean like every time some left-wing group claims that hundreds of thousands or millions of people march in some protest, and the media breathlessly reports those numbers, only to find later on that the actual size was 1/10 that number? That’s a common occurance. But hey, if they are waiting for accurate numbers, how about just reporting on the demonstrations, sans numbers? When doing this search, I kept running across dozens of media reports about an anti-occupation protest five months ago. That one was much smaller than this one, but it’s all over the media, including getting a whole special section on the BBC web site, including multimedia clips and slide shows. I guess anti-U.S. protests are just more newsworthy. No news here, huh? Anyway, seriously - what do you guys think of this? Is this a major positive development? A sign of hearts and minds being won? Or is this just not newsworthy? Because one link from the AFP isn’t much of a media splash, and this seems like major news to me. I never claimed left-wing bias, although you all were quick to accuse me of it. I’m asking a serious question - isn’t this big enough news that it should be covered? And if it is, why do YOU think it hasn’t made more than a ripple in the media? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/7 "2003-12-11T05:13:07Z")
It’s normally a good idea to give stories from Iraq a little time to percolate into the news before climbing on the liberal conspiracy train. In addition to AFP(see Yahoo), Knight Ridder, CTV, and even the San Jose Mercury News have pickd up the story ([Look here for more.](http://news.google.com/news?q=iraq+demonstration&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&edition=us&scoring=d&start=10&sa=N&filter=0)) Lots of pics are available at the [Mercury news](http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/7461112.htm), or [Sun Herald](http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/7461112.htm). -Favorite pic: > [@](#): > > Iraqi man, carrying a banner with the image of Iran’s former leader Ayahtollah Kohmeni, right, marches in a parade in Baghdad. -Favorite quote: > [@](#): > > “We didn’t expect this big a crowd to respond,” said al Yassiri, who’s also secretary-general of the **Iraqi National Coalition, an exile group**. “It was hard to organize all these groups who filled the streets and the sidewalks.” Not to be confused with Chalabi’s Iraqi National Congress. More about the INCoalition [here](http://www.iraqinews.com/party_iraqi_national_coalition.shtml). ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/8 "2003-12-11T05:22:20Z")
"Abbass Hamid, 24, an off-duty taxi driver, decided to participate when he saw the crowd walk past. \*\* “This is the first time I’ve participated in one of these by my own free will,” \*\* Hamid said. “I hope, if God is willing, the government will listen to us. I’m depending on them to make life better for us.” Hmm… you know… that one line says a lot to me. Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/9 "2003-12-11T05:22:53Z")
Anyone else reminded of all those chortling threads back in the month or two after the war started, in which one or another of the Usual Suspects would breathlessly declare that the naysayers ought to be ashamed because _they found the WMDs!!!_? Nothing to see here, folks. Just more Republican porn. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/10 "2003-12-11T05:28:07Z")
Apparently, Foxnews had a report on this tonight. A blogger taped it, and posted some screenshots. Here’s a link: [Screen shots of Iraq Demonstrations](http://www.donaldsensing.com/2003_12_01_archive.html#107109864088011111) Have a look at the third picture down. There are at least several thousand people just in that frame. I think the 10,000 figure is low, especially considering that similar protests happened in two other cities as well. And wow, there was a pro-democracy protest in [Syria](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=3&u=/ap/20031211/ap_on_re_mi_ea/syria_protest) today. From the link: > [@](#): > > DAMASCUS, Syria - In a highly unusual protest, more than 150 Syrian pro-democracy activists staged a sit-in Wednesday outside the prime minister’s office in downtown Damascus, calling for more freedoms, the release of political prisoners and the abolition of the country’s emergency law. And, there were [anti-regime protests in Iran this week as well](http://www.daneshjoo.org/smccdinews/article/publish/article_4069.shtml). Not a bad week for the prospects of democracy in the middle east. ---
**Author:** ![\_possum\_stalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/b77776/32.png) [@\_possum\_stalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_possum_stalker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/11 "2003-12-11T05:50:01Z")
Here’s another link to coverage: > **[Iraqis march in salute to U.S.](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2003/dec/6/20031206-120933-1854r/)** > > BAGHDAD — Up to 1,000 Iraqis, including children orphaned by the war that ousted Saddam Hussein, marched through Baghdad yesterday to denounce guerrilla attacks and show support for U.S.-led occupation forces. The larger figures lumps together protests in multiple cities, including Karbal, Baghdad, and others. Gee, 1000 people marched in Baghdad, a city of 6.5 million. Bully. The demonstrations [against the U.S.](http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Aug/08142003/nation_w/83812.asp) dwarf this one, so I wouldn’t say we’re winning the straw poll yet. As to why isn’t this on every front page: I think Rumsfeld’s visit may have overshadowed the Friday demonstration in some media outlets. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/12 "2003-12-11T08:24:36Z")
So, uh, where’s the debate? Other than **Sam’s** premature “liberal media conspiracy” wolf-crying, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/13 "2003-12-11T08:28:00Z")
Try reading my messages again. I asked plenty of questions that have been ignored in favor of accusing me of blaming this on a ‘liberal media conspiracy’ - a claim I never made. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/14 "2003-12-11T08:51:40Z")
I agree, the New York Times should have put out a special edition of their paper tonight. Or maybe one should wait until the traditional media sources have their edit/publish lag time before asking such questions. When the Times buries this in the backpages, you’ll have a lot more to go on than just the fact that blogs are faster than newspapers and Broadcast News. > [@](#): > > Try reading my messages again. I asked plenty of questions that have been ignored in favor of accusing me of blaming this on a ‘liberal media conspiracy’ - a claim I never made. Well, he never had SEX with that woman, technically. “So why isn’t this big news? I can’t find a single report of this on TV so far, or in any of the major newspapers. **Maybe it’s because it’s a march against Terrorism and in support of reconstruction and the United States** ” “This would seem to me to be amazingly good news, and a very welcome development. So why is no one talking about this?” ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/15 "2003-12-11T08:58:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*Try reading my messages again. I asked plenty of questions that have been ignored in favor of accusing me of blaming this on a ‘liberal media conspiracy’ - a claim I never made. \*\* Huh? A claim you never made? Why - because you didn’t use those _exact_ words? Are you trying to be the new **December** or something? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/16 "2003-12-11T09:15:40Z")
Sam. they’re right. That’s clearly the angle you were suggesting – and if/when the NYT et al. bury it after ample time is allowed, you’ll have a case. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/17 "2003-12-11T11:57:15Z")
Using the same logic some Bushites used in the pre-war period: Well the other millions who aren’t marching must be against Bush then… (When a million marched in London that was a common stupid response… where are the other millions.) ``` Its laudable that they are "protesting" and not being shot at by the americans. Obviously it wasn't too spontaneous and seems organized by the INC. I hope its not just for getting some media attention and promoting political groups. Best of all... Iraqis will have to solve their own mess. Its Iraqis that have to stop helping insurgents. (The US is obviously incapable of doing so) A demonstration is smallish step into creating a national aversion to the insurgents... it still will take years to get things straight there. ``` ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/18 "2003-12-11T13:53:16Z")
In a place with thousands upon thousands of men unemployed and just standing around, you could draw a crowd of a couple thousand by banging a drum and playing a kazoo. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/19 "2003-12-11T14:08:45Z")
**Apos’** quotes of **Sam**!= him saying that there is a “liberal media conspiracy”. It’s perfectly reasonable for **Sam** to ask why there isn’t reporting of this event going on. He doesn’t deserve to have words put in his mouth about any conspiracy. **elucidator** , why don’t you start one up then? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262/20 "2003-12-11T14:13:09Z")
In Baghdad? Oh, I see, its a snarky rejoinder, devoid of content. Ha! Very droll. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tens-of-thousands-march-in-baghdad/218262.md?page=2)