# Tenty-One instead of Eleven **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 23, 2002, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580 "2002-05-23T23:56:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Adversary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Adversary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Adversary)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2002, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/1 "2002-05-23T23:56:37Z")
Why do we have special words for Eleven and Twelve instead of following the same way we count in the twenties and thirties? Strange question, but kinda makes you wonder… Mike ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/2 "2002-05-24T00:50:42Z")
You mean why not one-teen, two-teen, thirteen, fourteen, etc? I dunno. Or do you mean why not tenty-one, tenty-two, tenty-three, etc? I think in this case, tenty would get confused with twenty. And don’t even consider ten-one, ten-two, ten-three, etc. That’s just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/3 "2002-05-24T01:12:54Z")
Probably because so many basic units of measurement were in twelves rather than in decimal units. Months and hours are the best example of this. So the naming was done on a twelve basis rather than stopping the naming of numbers after ten. Once the numbers get higher than twelve, there are no special names because they were never really base units of measurement. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/4 "2002-05-24T01:14:02Z")
I believe the words “eleven” and “twelve” are vestigial carry-overs from some base 12 nomenclature that we used to use for smaller numbers and groupings. PS–anyone know of a good online dictionary with an etymology? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/5 "2002-05-24T01:19:29Z")
I have a vague memory that eleven is related to left and means, in effect one left over. And twelve means two left over. Similar words are in all Germanic languages (elf and zwelf in German). In French, the names for 11 and 12 are formed on the same pattern as 13 and so on (onze, douze, treize, …). So it would seem that the original spealers of Indo-European may not have counted past ten. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/6 "2002-05-24T01:24:59Z")
We’ve covered this a number of times. The latest was a discussion a couple of weeks ago on non-base 10 numbering systems: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1921851#post1921851](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1921851#post1921851) ---
**Author:** ![stockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@stockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stockton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/7 "2002-05-24T01:47:43Z")
Not a hijack, but an auxiliary question about bizarre numbering: Why do they jump over to quatre-vingt in French after 79 (septante-neuf)? That’s so strange - “Four-Twenty and One, Four-Twenty and Two, etc.” Kind of like “four score and seven years ago…” To address the OP: My understanding is that English is a germanic language, and eleven (elf) and twelve (zwolf) have their own names, apart from the normal progression. I have no doubt that a German doper will swoop in and provide the correct spellings of these two numbers if I’ve munged them. Good question, mchapman ---
**Author:** ![stockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@stockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stockton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/8 "2002-05-24T01:51:13Z")
And I completely missed the post by Hari Seldon that rendered my post redundant. Please disregard the post above in favor of HS’s. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/9 "2002-05-24T02:27:20Z")
I remember one time on Jeoperdy, I’m not sure what the clue was, but the answer (question) was “What is one million?” The woman’s response was “Thousand Thousand.” Trebek said “No I’m sorry, it’s 'What is one million?” She responded that it’s the same thing. Anyways, she didn’t get the points. I’ve always wondered if she should have gotten the points or not. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/10 "2002-05-24T02:57:53Z")
As Hari says, it’s from German. I learned bck i gramar school that “eleven” comes from “ein lifon” = “one over” (i.e. – one more tha ten). Similarly, “twelve” comes from “twe lifon” = “two over”. Neat, huh? ---
**Author:** ![cleops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@cleops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cleops)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/11 "2002-05-24T03:22:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stockton \* > \*\*…(septante-neuf)… \*\* …c’est quoi, ca? ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/12 "2002-05-24T16:22:50Z")
Soixante-dix-neuf? ---
**Author:** ![Tradnor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cab0a1/32.png) [@Tradnor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tradnor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2002, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/13 "2002-05-25T05:53:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joey P \* > \*\*I remember one time on Jeoperdy, I’m not sure what the clue was, but the answer (question) was “What is one million?” The woman’s response was “Thousand Thousand.” Trebek said “No I’m sorry, it’s 'What is one million?” She responded that it’s the same thing. Anyways, she didn’t get the points. I’ve always wondered if she should have gotten the points or not. \*\* Of course not. She should have said, “_What is_ a thousand thousand?” ---
**Author:** ![jbird3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/aeb1de/32.png) [@jbird3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbird3000)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2002, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/14 "2002-05-25T06:17:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stockton \* > **Why do they jump over to quatre-vingt in French after 79 (septante-neuf)? That’s so strange - “Four-Twenty and One, Four-Twenty and Two, etc.” Kind of like "four score and seven years ago…"** And 99 is quatre-vingt-dix-neuf… translated to four-twenty-ten-nine. I grew up in a French school and didn’t even realize that quatre-vingt meant four-twenty, I thought it was a word on its own. Instead of asking why they jump after 79, maybe the better question would be why DON’T they jump after 69 and 89? ---
**Author:** ![jbird3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/aeb1de/32.png) [@jbird3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbird3000)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2002, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/15 "2002-05-25T06:20:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joey P \* > \*\*I remember one time on Jeoperdy, I’m not sure what the clue was, but the answer (question) was “What is one million?” The woman’s response was “Thousand Thousand.” Trebek said “No I’m sorry, it’s 'What is one million?” She responded that it’s the same thing. Anyways, she didn’t get the points. I’ve always wondered if she should have gotten the points or not. \*\* I remember seeing that one. I thought at first she said the answer was a thousand million. Concerning my above post, I didn’t notice the use of “septante”. Never heard that before. Soixante-dix. And 79 would be soixante-dix-neuf. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2002, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tenty-one-instead-of-eleven/110580/16 "2002-05-25T08:21:02Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by AHunter3_ > PS–anyone know of a good online dictionary with an etymology? Try the [_American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language_](http://www.bartleby.com/61/) on [Bartleby.com](http://www.bartleby.com/) (See for example their entry on the word [eleven](http://www.bartleby.com/61/62/E0086200.html).)