# Teresa Heinz Kerry vs. The Governator **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 18, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899 "2004-09-18T20:56:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@Earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthling)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/1 "2004-09-18T20:56:21Z")
It occurs to me that many Americans (presumably of the Republican-leaning persuasaion) have misgivings about the possibility of Teresa Heinz Kerry becoming First Lady because, basically, that she’s [not American enough](http://slate.msn.com/id/2106645/). Yet at the same time, there is a movement (again presumably from Republican-leaning people) who want to change the constitution to allow foreign-born citizens (e.g., [Arnold Schwarzenegger](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=276247)) to become President of the U.S. Am I correct in assuming that both sentiments are shared by the same group of people? If so, how does that make any sense? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/2 "2004-09-18T21:16:15Z")
Being such a huge star of American movies, and an icon of American culture, I think most folks consider Arnie pretty American in their gut. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/3 "2004-09-18T22:06:44Z")
It’s not the same people. There are some people who will take any “Republican,” even if he’s from, say, Mars, & reject any “Democrat” for quasi-religious reasons–the religion being GOPism, but what they may think is “real American values”–regardless of where he’s from. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/4 "2004-09-18T22:08:02Z")
I was unclear. The “any GOP, no Demo” camp will go along with the nativists against Teresa H. K., & along with the pro-Arnie guys, too, but they’re not the big impetus to either. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/5 "2004-09-19T00:31:02Z")
This is the first I’ve heard that people complain that Terezzzzzzzza isn’t American enough for the job of First Lady. Pretty lame, IMHO. There’s so much more to dislike about her, who cares what country she was born in? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/6 "2004-09-19T02:37:29Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > There’s so much more to dislike about her, who cares what country she was born in? She’s a child of wealth and privilege, just like her husband, and GWB. What else is there to dislike? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/7 "2004-09-19T02:47:37Z")
I would guess it a lot of it has to do with how they’re percieved. Arnold _seems_ American to many of us. He adopted this country, worked his ass off, acheived many difficult goals, and is working his ass off in the trenches to try to make California’s government more responsive to its people. Teresa Heinz-Kerry just seems to go through life with a superior smirk on her face and firing off wisecracks. ---
**Author:** ![Earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@Earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthling)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/8 "2004-09-19T07:24:49Z")
Based on the above posts, I have a couple of loosely related questions:[ol] [li]So if you’re a big Hollywood star, that makes it easier for Americans to accept you as one of their own, and accents don’t matter? What if, say, Lucy Liu – American-born but not “American looking”\* – were running for President? Would it matter what her party affiliation is?[/li][li]So the people who worship GOPism don’t really care about birthplace? Are they just aligning themselves with the nativists against Mrs. Kerry purely for convenience? So if Sen. Heinz were still alive and running for President, they wouldn’t have any problems with his foreign-born wife? [/li][li]Do nativists have, as a whole, a general leaning towards Republicans or Democrats?[/li][li]So what does it take (other than Hollywood stardom) to be accepted as a “real” American?[/li][li]Corollary to the above: what is so unlikeable about Teresa (vis-a-vis the Republican ticket)? As pointed out above, wealth and privilege can’t be legitimate reasons, since these are conditions shared by the Bush family. Also as pointed out above, there’s a perception that Governor Arnold is a hard worker (and implying that Mrs. Kerry is just the opposite) – but isn’t that just because Arnold’s work is so much more visible? What do we know about Mrs. Kerry’s work habits (I think it’s false to assume that those who can afford not to work automatically don’t).[/li][/ol] - That is, white, or maybe black. I suspect that in regions of the country without large Asian populations, many there would probably still view Asians as being fundamentally foreign, no matter where they were born. ---
**Author:** ![Asteroide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@Asteroide](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asteroide)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/9 "2004-09-19T07:55:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > She’s a child of wealth and privilege, just like her husband, and GWB. What else is there to dislike? Is this true ? Were TK’s family wealthy and privileged, or did she achieve that status as an adult, through marriage ? For that matter does John Kerry really come from a wealthy family ? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/10 "2004-09-19T15:15:56Z")
> [@Asteroide](#): > > Is this true ? Were TK’s family wealthy and privileged, or did she achieve that status as an adult, through marriage ? > > For that matter does John Kerry really come from a wealthy family ? From the Wikipedia, article on Teresa Heinz Kerry ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa\_Heinz\_Kerry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_Heinz_Kerry)): > [@](#): > > **The Beginnings** > > Maria Teresa Thierstein Simões-Ferreira (more simply, Teresa Simões-Ferreira) was born to Portuguese parents in Mozambique, which was a colony of Portugal at the time. Her father was Dr. José Simões-Ferreira, and her mother was Irene Thierstein. > > She grew up in Mozambique’s capital, Lourenço Marques (now called Maputo). Her father was a medical doctor, and “Teresinha” (the diminutive of Teresa in Portuguese) led a relatively privileged lifestyle. Her father would, however, often bring her along on his calls into the African bush, where she witnessed how those of lesser means lived. > > She earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in Romance Languages and literature from the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, South Africa. She graduated from the Interpreters School of the University of Geneva (Switzerland) before moving to the United States to work at the United Nations as a translator. She is fluent in five languages: English, Spanish, French, Italian, and her native Portuguese. > > **Marriages and Offspring** > > Simões-Ferreira married Senator Henry John Heinz III of the ketchup Heinzes on February 5, 1966 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. A few years after the marriage, in 1971, she became a naturalized United States citizen. The couple had three sons: John Heinz IV (born 1967), Andre Heinz (born 1970) and Christopher Drake Heinz (born 1973). > > Mrs. Heinz met John Kerry in 1990 at an Earth Day rally, after being introduced by Senator Heinz. This was the only known time that she and John Kerry met before the death of Senator Heinz. After Senator Heinz died in an airplane crash on April 4, 1991 in Pennsylvania, Mrs. Heinz inherited his vast fortune. She and John Kerry ran into each other again at Rio de Janeiro, Brazil in 1992 at the Earth Summit, which Ms. Heinz attended as a member of a State Department delegation by appointment by President George H. W. Bush. Their courtship began in 1993, and they were married on May 26, 1995 on Nantucket, Massachusetts. This was also the second marriage for Senator Kerry. And the article on John Kerry ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John\_Kerry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry)): > [@](#): > > **Family background** > > Kerry’s paternal grandfather, Frederick A. Kerry (born Fritz Kohn), was born in the town of Horni Benesov, Austria-Hungary (in what is now the Moravian-Silesian Region of the Czech Republic), and grew up in Mödling (a small town near Vienna, Austria). His wife Ida (née Loewe) was born in Budapest, Hungary. They were both German-speaking Jews. But in 1901, Fritz Kohn converted from Judaism to Catholicism and changed his name to Frederick Kerry. His wife Ida also converted at the same time. They then immigrated to the United States, arriving at Ellis Island in 1905. They raised their three children, including John’s father, as Catholics. A Czech historian believes that Ida was a descendant of Sinai Loew, one of three older brothers of Rabbi Judah Loew (1525-August 22, 1609), a famous Kabbalist, philosopher and talmudist known as the Maharal of Prague. Two of Ida’s siblings, Otto Loewe and Jenni Loewe, died in the Nazi extermination camps (Theresienstadt and Treblinka, respectively), after being deported from Vienna in 1942. > > Richard John Kerry, John’s father, was born (c. 1916) in Massachusetts. After a stint in the U.S. Army Air Corps, he worked for the Foreign Service and served as an attorney for the Bureau of United Nations Affairs in the U.S. Department of State. In 1937, he met Rosemary Forbes, a member of the wealthy Forbes family. One of eleven children, she studied to be a nurse, and served in the Red Cross in Paris during World War II (she also was a Girl Scout leader for 50 years). The couple married in Montgomery, Alabama in January 1941. > > John Kerry’s maternal grandfather, James Grant Forbes, was born in Shanghai, China, where the Forbes family of China and Boston accumulated a fortune in the opium and China trade. Forbes married Margaret Tyndal Winthrop, who came from a family with deep roots in New England history. Through her, John Kerry is related to four Presidents, including, ironically, George W. Bush (9th cousin, twice removed). [1] ([http://www.familyforest.com/Kerry\_Bush\_Cousins.html](http://www.familyforest.com/Kerry_Bush_Cousins.html)) So, while they’re not quite as aristocratic as GWB, both Kerry and his wife came from backgrounds much higher than middle-class. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/11 "2004-09-20T23:33:34Z")
Um, Kerry’s father’s side sounds middle-class in that bio. Need more information. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/12 "2004-09-20T23:46:16Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Um, Kerry’s father’s side sounds middle-class in that bio. Need more information. He was a military office, an attorney, and a diplomat. In those days, those things meant something more than middle-class status. And he married a Forbes, no less. (He also might have been descended from what passed for aristocracy among European Jews, if that counts for anything.) I’m still waiting to hear what **Abbie** dislikes so much about Terezzzzza (that has nothing to do with her foreign birth). ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/13 "2004-09-21T00:09:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > …I’m still waiting to hear what **Abbie** dislikes so much about Terezzzzza (that has nothing to do with her foreign birth). Heh, Momma-T makes Hilary look positively genteel and lady-like in comparison. From her damned goofy ‘Momma T’ speech, to her damned funny yelling at reporters to shutup right after telling everyone we need to get along, she provides all sorts of reasons to dislike her. Of course, few if any people will actually change their votes because ‘Just call me Momma-T’ is so nutty, but she isn’t exactly helping ol’ John much. (Maybe she is a deep-cover Republican operative? :eek:) ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/14 "2004-09-21T02:15:39Z")
> [@](#): > > …A Czech historian believes that Ida was a descendant of Sinai Loew, one of three older brothers of Rabbi Judah Loew (1525-August 22, 1609), a famous Kabbalist, philosopher and talmudist known as the Maharal of Prague. Wow…this would be so cool if it was true. Didn’t Rabbi Loew create the Golem of Prague? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/15 "2004-09-21T03:23:03Z")
So lemme get this straight. Teresa was naturalized in 1971 and Arnie in 1983 and HE’S more “American?” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/16 "2004-09-21T03:39:38Z")
> [@bizzwire](#): > > Wow…this would be so cool if it was true. Didn’t Rabbi Loew create the Golem of Prague? Yep. From the Wikipedia ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem)): > [@](#): > > In the late nineteenth century the golem was adopted by mainstream European society. Most notably Gustav Meyrink’s 1915 novel Der Golem based on the tales of the golem created by the 16th century rabbi Judah Low ben Bezalel of Prague. This book inspired a classic set of expressionistic silent movies, Paul Wegener’s Golem series, of which especially Golem: How He Came Into the World (also released as The Golem, 1920, USA 1921) is famous [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah\_Low\_ben\_Bezalel:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_Low_ben_Bezalel:) > [@](#): > > Judah Low ben Bezalel (1525 — 1609) was a Jewish scholar and rabbi, most of his life in Prague. He is commonly referred to as the “Maharal [of Prague]” (Moreinu ha-Rav Loew, “Our Teacher and Rabbi Loew”). > > Within Judaism, he is known for this works on philosophy of religion and his supercommentary on Rashi’s Torah commentary. Outside Judaism, he is best known for his Golem, which he created - according to the legend - to defend the Prague Ghetto from antisemitic attacks. If Kerry wins and the above becomes more than obscure knowledge, we might be in for four years of golem-themed political cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/17 "2004-09-21T04:09:46Z")
It would explain his mechanical and lifeless campaigning style but would it mean that that particular Democratic idol has feet of clay? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/18 "2004-09-21T04:13:03Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > It would explain his mechanical and lifeless campaigning style but would it mean that that particular Democratic idol has feet of clay? 😛 At least nobody seems to be objecting to Kerry as a presidential candidate because of his Jewish blood. Not out loud, anyway. 50 or even 40 years ago it might actually have been a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/19 "2004-09-21T04:23:29Z")
> [@bizzwire](#): > > Wow…this would be so cool if it was true. Didn’t Rabbi Loew create the Golem of Prague? So does this make Kerry the Heir of Isildur? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899/20 "2004-09-21T05:48:00Z")
Actually, I think Theresa’s problem isn’ t that she’s perceived as a foreigner. Her problem is that she is perceived as being a bitch. From her ‘shove it’ comment to her later comment that people who didn’t like her husband’s health care plan were ‘idiots’, to her self-serving speech at the convention where she barely mentioned her husband, I think she is perceived as a fairly nasty, self-absorbed, out of touch rich person. At least, that’s the way she comes across to me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teresa-heinz-kerry-vs-the-governator/264899.md?page=2)