# Terminator 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 17, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398 "2010-10-17T02:49:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/61 "2010-10-20T21:10:51Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > Sarah Connor asks the Terminator if his wounds would heal, because he was no use to them if he can’t pass for human. > Why does he need to pass for human? Part of the problem is that nobody believes Terminators are real, because they look just like humans. > > Why does his wounds need to heal to pass for human. He could just wear a shirt. Sarah doesn’t make any sense. First off, they are beyond trying to convince anyone that terminators are real. That didn’t work. So instead they want to go for incognito. Disappear into the jungles of South America if that’s what it takes. Yes, if he gets his chest and back riddled with bullets he could just wear a shirt/coat. What if he takes one to the face? Later he gets the skin on his forehead scraped off. Short term he’ll have to accept it, but long term that could get really inconvenient. > [@](#): > > bonus question > Is it really possible to fly a helicopter under a bridge like that? Why wouldn’t it be? If there’s sufficient clearance, then it’s possible. It’s not like a bridge creates a pocket of negative gravity or something. > [@BMax](#): > > Another point that I noticed: being unable to learn from his experiences until they manually reset the switch in his head is a minor plot point, but in the first movie he learns “Fuck You, Asshole” from Bill Paxton. When did that happen? > [@Number](#): > > It’s not a plot point in the theatrical release; that sequence, filmed with Linda Hamilton’s twin sister, is a deleted scene. Well then, that explains it. > [@AWB](#): > > And he used Goldstein and Paxton in “Titanic”. In these 3, Ms. Goldstein portrayed 3 different ethnicities: American (T2), Hispanic (A2), and Irish (Titanic). Wait, you’re telling me [this](http://content7.flixster.com/photo/10/87/38/10873861_gal.jpg) and [this](http://content6.flixster.com/photo/66/76/56/6676568_gal.jpg) are the same person? [http://www.flixster.com/photos/jenette-goldstein-terminator-2-judgment-day-janelle-voight-10873861](http://www.flixster.com/photos/jenette-goldstein-terminator-2-judgment-day-janelle-voight-10873861) Apparently so. I never would have guessed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/62 "2010-10-20T21:18:15Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > When did that happen? I never got the impression he learned the phrase from Paxton, myself. He just picked “Fuck you, asshole” from a list of stock phrases. The “terminator-cam” view shows: POSSIBLE RESPONSE: YES/NO OR WHAT? GO AWAY PLEASE COME BACK LATER FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE FUCK YOU [Related follow-up material](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inTRblYTevk&NR=1) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/63 "2010-10-20T21:23:33Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > It still could have looked like a different cop, so that he wouldn’t be immediately recognizable to the good guys > > not that they wouldn’t have good reason to run away from any cop, but it still might help the t-1000 to be a little more blended in 3D modeling is computationally expensive, even when all you’re trying to render is a static image. Video is even more so. I can’t even imagine what it takes to render a real-world object, let alone a self-powered one that moves. Even for magic-tech Terminators, it’s not unreasonable that it wouldn’t be trivially easy for them to do. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/64 "2010-10-20T21:59:06Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > 3D modeling is computationally expensive, even when all you’re trying to render is a static image. Video is even more so. I can’t even imagine what it takes to render a real-world object, let alone a self-powered one that moves. Even for magic-tech Terminators, it’s not unreasonable that it wouldn’t be trivially easy for them to do. So the T-1000 had a complete library of “Robert Patrick” facial expressions, walking motions, him in various police uniforms (i.e. as a beat cop and as a motorcycle cop)… yeah, I can see it being easier to keep reverting to these defaults than try to appear as something else and not getting the movements right. It’s an objection that occurred to me at the time, wondering why the T-1000 kept reverting to Robert Patrick even after the T-800 and the Connors recognized that appearance, but it never ruined the movie for me. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/65 "2010-10-21T00:17:50Z")
As a minor afterthought, the guys who created the FX _also_ had a library of “Robert Patrick” facial expressions, walking motions, him in various police uniforms (i.e. as a beat cop and as a motorcycle cop) because they had the real Robert Patrick who was willing to play along with all the tedious motion-capture stuff, at a time when the technical aspects of motion-capture were still being figured out. Trying to train a second actor (who presumably would play the T-1000 in the latter part of the film after it realized it should change “disguises”) would be a real hassle, let alone the idea of running multiple actors through the process. Heck, the T-1000’s longest alternate appearance was played by Dan Stanton (who got to give his twin brother Don “the finger”, while Don was playing a guard named Lewis) and just the brief morphing effects that required a recognizable Stanton (i.e. the end of the rising-from-the-floor bit) must have been a nuisance, and Stanton’s performance is particularly (and a bit jarringly) stone faced and stiff, I assume because Cameron told him “Okay, you’re a robot. Action!” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/66 "2010-10-21T02:06:53Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Definitely killed in Terminator, more like grievously injured and asking to be euthanized in Alien 3. Also killed in AVP by a Predator. > [@Mr. Excellent](#): > > 3D modeling is computationally expensive, even when all you’re trying to render is a static image. Video is even more so. I can’t even imagine what it takes to render a real-world object, let alone a self-powered one that moves. Even for magic-tech Terminators, it’s not unreasonable that it wouldn’t be trivially easy for them to do. Not really. I can render a photorealistic object on my 5 year old desktop PC using Autodesk 3ds Max. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/67 "2010-10-21T03:25:01Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Not really. I can render a photorealistic object on my 5 year old desktop PC using Autodesk 3ds Max. Ah, but can you kill a man with it? ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/68 "2010-10-21T07:06:52Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I never got the impression he learned the phrase from Paxton, myself. He just picked “Fuck you, asshole” from a list of stock phrases. The “terminator-cam” view shows: > > POSSIBLE RESPONSE: > YES/NO > OR WHAT? > GO AWAY > PLEASE COME BACK LATER > FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE > FUCK YOU > > [Related follow-up material](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inTRblYTevk&NR=1) That was the impression I got in 1984. Check out this scene, about 47 seconds in https://www.youtube.com/embed/qBK7zCuzS_I?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/69 "2010-10-21T08:48:50Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > how well someone with a blank stare and emotionless Austrian accent would be able to pass a normal human. That’s a slander on the whole Austrian population. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/70 "2010-10-21T09:33:13Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > The “never touches a cheetah” part is irrelevant. We know he’s able to form himself into simple non-human shapes likes blades and grabby-crowbar bits. I’m not saying to become an actual cheetah, I’m saying to shape himself into some physical shape other than bipedal human in which whatever “muscle force” he’s able to generate produces maximum forward velocity on the ground. Which is why I’m thinking a long-legged quadraped of some sort. This makes no sense. Sure he can make simple objects but a quadraped designed for optimal running is the exact opposite of that. He would have to sample something of that design to make it work. Even if he did have something like that in the database he would have lost precious seconds while morphing into that. It makes far more sense for him to keep the form he’s in and just haul ass. The other issues of why he didn’t sample more people or perhaps kill a dog or two and just walk up to John is a much worse plothole. A dog in particular would have been a good idea if it barked at some stranger Arnie and Sarah might take that to mean that the other person in the Terminator and might even take the dog close to John so he could be ‘protected’ by the early alert system…would have to be a big dog though. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/71 "2010-10-21T10:56:16Z")
Cheetahs have chemicals, moving parts. It doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/72 "2010-10-21T11:21:00Z")
> [@BMax](#): > > That was the impression I got in 1984. Check out this scene, about 47 seconds in > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBK7zCuzS\_I&feature=fvst](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBK7zCuzS_I&feature=fvst) On review, it’s not clear that Paxton’s character is actually killed. I feel comfortable assuming so, though, because that’s what Terminators do. Anyway, the Terminator repeats back two phrases, partly, neither of which is “Fuck you, asshole”, and I don’t recall him saying “nice night for a walk” or “nothing clean, right” at any point later in the film, nor does Paxton (or either of his buddies) otherwise contribute to the list of: YES/NO OR WHAT? GO AWAY PLEASE COME BACK LATER FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE FUCK YOU So I vote coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/73 "2010-10-21T17:02:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Ah, but can you kill a man with it? With these weapons? I don’t know. The real answer to the why Robert Pattrick question is that you want the audience to identify and connect with a specific villain, not some amorphous blob or a rotating bunch of faces. Sure, it probably makes more sense if the T-1000 pursued Connor as some random person on the street or a little girl or even a stray dog. But it would make a lame story. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/74 "2010-10-21T17:36:50Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > This makes no sense. Sure he can make simple objects but a quadraped designed for optimal running is the exact opposite of that. He would have to sample something of that design to make it work. Even if he did have something like that in the database he would have lost precious seconds while morphing into that. It makes far more sense for him to keep the form he’s in and just haul ass. I still disagree. We see during the fight at the end that he’s quite capable of improvisation and quick morphing “in the action”, so to speak, such as when he gets slammed into the wall and changes which way he’s facing, and when he grabs the crowbar in his stomach. But really it’s a pointless discussion. There are certainly many things he could have done to improve his odds of killing JC that he didn’t do. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/75 "2010-10-21T19:21:29Z")
The T-1000 must be vulnerable to greater damage while morphing. Otherwise, why not just drop into the elevator with them when they’re escaping Pescadero? He could have easily skewered everyone in there but instead he just stabs through the ceiling at them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/76 "2010-10-21T22:45:05Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > The T-1000 must be vulnerable to greater damage while morphing. Otherwise, why not just drop into the elevator with them when they’re escaping Pescadero? He could have easily skewered everyone in there but instead he just stabs through the ceiling at them. Heck, at that point he can start impersonating Sarah Connor, since he touches her by slicing open the back of her shoulder. And probably also John Connor shortly thereafter, when John grabs and discards a chunk of the T-1000’s “hand”, to be reabsorbed. I’m not sure how the T-1000 successfully copies Lewis the guard, having only made physical contact with the soles of his boots. It might have been amusing for the T-1000 to copy Lewis’s boots… and then kick his ass. And I guess he is more vulnerable in mid-morph, hence telling the pilot to get out of the helicopter instead of expending the energy to kill him. Or maybe the T-1000 realized he could fly faster without the pilot’s weight and taking the time to dump his body would waste precious seconds. I get that the T-1000 isn’t used to its full (and rather awesome) potential, but when is any sci-fi concept? ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/77 "2010-10-22T00:07:30Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > With these weapons? I don’t know. > The real answer to the why Robert Pattrick question is that you want the audience to identify and connect with a specific villain, not some amorphous blob or a rotating bunch of faces. Sure, it probably makes more sense if the T-1000 pursued Connor as some random person on the street or a little girl or even a stray dog. But it would make a lame story. I don’t believe he could mimic a little girl. Too much size difference. Maybe he could do a dog, but it would have to be a pretty large breed, which would probably not make the best way to randomly approach his target. People tend to be wary of large, strange canines. Best approach might have been to just hide at the foster parents home mimicing their floor and never go to the mall at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/78 "2010-10-22T01:24:48Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Best approach might have been to just hide at the foster parents home mimicing their floor and never go to the mall at all. That sounds logical, but it would have failed because the T-800 would have made contact at the mall. Without the initial gun battle, it’s unclear if John would have bought that the T-800 was there to protect him, but the T-800 would have just grabbed him and took him out of the city by force. And the T-1000 had reason to suspect this might happen, since John’s foster parents mention that “some big guy” (or words to that effect) had been by the house earlier looking for John. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/79 "2010-10-22T02:25:50Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > Why does the T-1000 always show up in the same disguise, as that one police officer, so that he is instantly recognizable to John and Sarah and Arnold? Why doesn’t he just imitate some random guy and then he could easily walk up and kill John. Fanwank : presumably, Arnold could spot him anyway with that analyzing red vision of his, so T-1000 goes for the “intimidate the fleshbags into uselessness” tac instead. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398/80 "2010-10-22T02:29:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Fanwank : presumably, Arnold could spot him anyway with that analyzing red vision of his, so T-1000 goes for the “intimidate the fleshbags into uselessness” tac instead. Heck, Arnold could spot him while looking at a rearview mirror at a pursuing helicopter while thundering down a highway at night. “It’s him.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-2/557398.md?page=5)