# Terminator Dark Fate: Where the hell did Carl come from? \[spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498 "2019-11-15T17:08:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/21 "2019-11-16T14:05:16Z")
The thing is, he \*shouldn’t \*age. The outer skin isn’t even an inch thick. It’s not being fed by actual arteries from a heart, it isn’t connected to a gland system. It isn’t going to grow a grey beard. And it isn’t replacing those sloughed off skin cells. It’s a simulation of human skin, and it probably wasn’t meant to last even one day. Look what happens just in the span of _The Terminator_ to the 101’s skin. He starts to stink and attract flies from the damage. I know it’s a cute way to bring 70 year old Arnie baaahk and not have to digitally de-age him, but it doesn’t make sense. He’d have been just the skeleton after a month. Think what happened to the two leads in _Death Becomes Her_. That’s Carl over time. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/22 "2019-11-16T14:18:09Z")
Speaking of Terminator skin, apparently the movies forgot that time travel requires living tissue on the outside of whatever you are sending through time. Ever since T2 missed the opportunity to show the T1000 coming through as a sphere encased in skin, which it immediately discards as unnecessary, the movies seem to have forgot that fact. The Rev-9 shows no indication that it comes through with skin. Of course, that means you can encase a 100 megaton bomb in human skin and send it back in time, too, negating the whole movie franchise. Skynet/Legion never seems to appreciate the butterfly effect. Sure, they can kill Sarah/John/Dani, but all those other people killed as collateral damage? Who knows what changes are also being made to the timeline? As we see from T3, the future changed - the Skynet of T3 was not the one of T prime or T2. And in (by my interpretation of) the Dark Fate prime timeline, even thought they succeeded in killing John, Skynet never was created. They won the battle but lost the war. They changed the timeline so much that they prevented themselves from ever being created. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/23 "2019-11-16T14:29:43Z")
Yeah, the skin stays alive while it’s in whatever vat it’s grown in, but it starts dying as soon as it’s wrapped around a Terminator, and rots. A Terminator that’s successful in its mission, if it’s an ordinary mission, might be able to go back to the factory and get a new skin, but there’s no way it’d be able to live out a full life as a human. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/24 "2019-11-16T18:12:14Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Speaking of Terminator skin, apparently the movies forgot that time travel requires living tissue on the outside of whatever you are sending through time. Ever since T2 missed the opportunity to show the T1000 coming through as a sphere encased in skin, which it immediately discards as unnecessary, the movies seem to have forgot that fact. The Rev-9 shows no indication that it comes through with skin. I’ve just assumed for the sake of sanity that the future scientists figured that one out. Maybe living tissue was never an actual requirement and the human scientists just misunderstood how Skynet was doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/25 "2019-11-16T18:28:18Z")
Say, weren’t they toying around with the idea, at one point, that the Terminators’ human flesh was modeled on real human badasses, and so they could have Arnold playing the human badass who was the model for the T-800’s flesh? I think they ended up skipping that idea, IIRC because for the Terminator movie they were going to use it in, Arnold was busy being governor, but it would have been an alternate way to fit an aged Arnold into the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/26 "2019-11-16T19:34:19Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > So at some point in the Cyberdyne future, Skynet sent several “Arnolds” to kill John, but sent them to different points in the past? > > One of them was the one in T1. Another was the one re-programmed by the resistance to help Sarah in T2. And a third was the one who actually succeeded in killing John and became Carl. Others arrived after John was already dead, and Sarah killed them (after being tipped off by Carl)? OK, I guess that makes sense. > > Btw, I really enjoyed Carl’s story. IMO it could have made a pretty cool flick in its own right – what does a terminator do once it’s fulfilled its mission? I never thought I’d say it, but Schwarzenegger has actually grown into actor enough to pull it off with humor and depth. It was mentioned (in passing) that Skynet sent several terminators when it sent the T-1000. I’m guessing it send a 101 model because that is the same model sent to protect John, and it would be easy to trick Conner with that model. Anyway, I asked this question five years ago and I guess its been answered. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=728934&highlight=terminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=728934&highlight=terminator) Marry a single mom and start a drapery business. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/27 "2019-11-16T20:32:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Say, weren’t they toying around with the idea, at one point, that the Terminators’ human flesh was modeled on real human badasses, and so they could have Arnold playing the human badass who was the model for the T-800’s flesh? I think they ended up skipping that idea, IIRC because for the Terminator movie they were going to use it in, Arnold was busy being governor, but it would have been an alternate way to fit an aged Arnold into the movie. That scene was filmed but ultimately cut. It also explains the accent. Worth a watch. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/kayFrIR-Qfw/hqdefault.jpg "Terminator 3 Sergent Candy Scene") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kayFrIR-Qfw) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/28 "2019-11-16T22:21:00Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The question I have is, who invented time travel?? [Doctor Emmet Brown.](https://youtu.be/bBBw9E2Q_aY) ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/29 "2019-11-19T23:32:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, the skin stays alive while it’s in whatever vat it’s grown in, but it starts dying as soon as it’s wrapped around a Terminator, and rots. A Terminator that’s successful in its mission, if it’s an ordinary mission, might be able to go back to the factory and get a new skin, but there’s no way it’d be able to live out a full life as a human. Where did you get that idea? That’s not supported by the text of any of the movies that I can think of. In T2, Sarah explicitly asks the T101 if his wounds will heal, and he says yes. Yes, there’s the scene in T1 where he starts to attract flies, but that’s because the flesh has been damaged and the wounds not kept clean. The same thing happens to humans with wounds that aren’t cared for, and we don’t start dying when we come out of our vats. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/30 "2019-11-19T23:52:13Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Where did you get that idea? > > That’s not supported by the text of any of the movies that I can think of. In T2, Sarah explicitly asks the T101 if his wounds will heal, and he says yes. Yes, there’s the scene in T1 where he starts to attract flies, but that’s because the flesh has been damaged and the wounds not kept clean. The same thing happens to humans with wounds that aren’t cared for, and we don’t start dying when we come out of our vats. But our skin is part of a complete body. Heart, arteries, veins, liver, kidneys, lymph, GI tract. Everything a body needs to replenish skin, heal wounds. Where is a terminator going to get nutrition to repair skin damage? I wouldn’t trust they thought things through science-wise in T2. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/31 "2019-11-20T06:09:30Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Stipulating that time travel plot lines rarely hold up to logical scrutiny, and also that TDF isn’t even probably in the top 20% of those in terms of intelligence … > > What future did Schwarzenegger’s “Carl” character come from? The flaw in your reasoning is thinking the Terminators were sent at different times. The premise is that Skynet sent multiple Terminators at once, sprinkled throughout history. Carl was sent by Skynet the same time as the Terminators in T1 and T2, before the future was altered. It’s why he’s still around even though Legion replaced Skynet. Indeed, it opens up the idea that there are lots of cyborg assassins from different futures roaming the past, something that the Sarah Conner Chronicles played with. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/32 "2019-11-20T07:43:37Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > But our skin is part of a complete body. Heart, arteries, veins, liver, kidneys, lymph, GI tract. Everything a body needs to replenish skin, heal wounds. Where is a terminator going to get nutrition to repair skin damage? > > I wouldn’t trust they thought things through science-wise in T2. There are two ways to approach this: You either accept the idea that future science has found a way to nourish skin and keep it alive, or you don’t. We really don’t know what’s going on between the skin and the endoskeleton. When the flesh is burnt away from a T-800, the abdominal area seems too thin(much like a human’s abdominal area when reduced to a skeleton), so there is room where modified organs or some super-science replacement could be placed to keep the skin nourished. Maybe with only the skin to keep alive, the necessary support can be downsized and simplified in some super-science fashion. That bit of handwaving could explain this. Kyle Reese said that the T-800’s were not just used for killing John Conner, but were used in the future, infiltrating and killing humans. The skin made them much more difficult to detect vs rubber-skinned models. Since the robot overlords had been using them for awhile, maybe they had time to make a proper support system for the skin. It would be to their advantage to have it last longer and be more durable. The way the T-1000 and later models come through and don’t require living tissue is asinine. They just ignored, unnecessarily, a deliberately outlined rule of time travel as set up in the first movie. It could have easily been shown that they peel off and discard unneeded flesh as they arrive, but they don’t. I suppose you could say the T-1000 could mimic the properties of flesh, but that just seems like BS to me. When they shoot him, he looks like a tin can. I just choose to ignore this, but it seems problematic. Frankly, any sequels to T2 are a mistake. The first two movies were wonderfully done. If they HAD to do a sequel, they needed to go past the day the AI took over and show the resistance. Any further mucking about with the timeline before that day is just going to get messy. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/33 "2019-11-20T17:57:23Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > But our skin is part of a complete body. Heart, arteries, veins, liver, kidneys, lymph, GI tract. Everything a body needs to replenish skin, heal wounds. Where is a terminator going to get nutrition to repair skin damage? Same magic future tech place they got a time machine from? Terminator 2 took place over at least a few days, in the heat of Southern California/Mexico. A pile of dead flesh is a putrescent mess after a few days. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498/34 "2019-11-20T18:00:27Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > The way the T-1000 and later models come through and don’t require living tissue is asinine. They just ignored, unnecessarily, a deliberately outlined rule of time travel as set up in the first movie. It could have easily been shown that they peel off and discard unneeded flesh as they arrive, but they don’t. I suppose you could say the T-1000 could mimic the properties of flesh, but that just seems like BS to me. When they shoot him, he looks like a tin can. I just choose to ignore this, but it seems problematic. My fan-wank on this, which is not _supported_ by the movies but is (mostly) consistent with them, is that each movie is basically a separate iteration of a time loop, and just as Skynet had more sophisticated Terminators the second go-round because they got bootstrapped by the remains from the first loop, they got more sophisticated time machines too. That doesn’t explain why they still come through naked, though, so maybe it’s dumb. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-dark-fate-where-the-hell-did-carl-come-from-spoilers/843498.md?page=1)