# Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles Season 2 Part 2 thread \[open spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694 "2009-02-13T15:53:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/221 "2009-04-04T23:22:00Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Because the machines LOST. We don’t know that. Skynet lost in the before-t1-future and another Skynet very probably in the before-t2-future. We know nothing about the future, that was established with t3; and in all the futures that we have seen so far on TSCC, humans and Skynet’s machines are still fighting, while some other faction has decided to change the gameplan even further. > [@Merijeek](#): > > The humans just need to realize that killing all AI isn’t bad, and the AI needs to understand that killing all humans will eventually lead to its destruction. The show might indeed have something like that in mind-- but I’d be disappointed by such a Star-Trek-simpleness. The continuing time travel has led to futures that look more and more grim for the humans; and the creation of the T1000x artificials means more than just another machine – they are something that humanity can’t hope to defeat (at least not the bombed out humans of the futures that we have seen so far). ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/222 "2009-04-04T23:34:47Z")
My take - Capturing Savanah gets the grey suits into Weaver’s lab - they have a bargaining chip to see John Henry. We don’t have an indication that he intended to kill Savanah - as that would be easy - blow up the whole dang place. The Conner’s had no clue they were going to be up against a new Terminator - while one would think they would always be prepared for that possiblity, i think they had hoped to get in and get Savanah prior to the kidnappers arrival. My thought is they went after the Conner’s to get info on Savanah - I don’t think they are aware of the bigger picture. Or they went after them due to the images/pictures taken from the HK. I’m very interested in Weaver’s true motives - when she told Ellison that “John Henry must survive in order for you to survive” - I was getting the impression of an imperial you, not a personal one. Same for when she was talking about sacrificing Savanah - not allowing the “grey suits” to use the chip they thought they had. Capturing/disabling Cameron only makes sense… to bad the guy was slow/nervous about it. > [@wintertime](#): > > The show might indeed have something like that in mind-- but I’d be disappointed by such a Star-Trek-simpleness. Not so much star trek as war games - the only way to win is not play the game - I still think that Skynet is just playing Chess - a point alluded to in the earlier episode where Cameron was talking to Jessie - that that is what John was doing as well. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/223 "2009-04-05T10:16:29Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Capturing Savanah gets the grey suits into Weaver’s lab - they have a bargaining chip to see John Henry. We don’t have an indication that he intended to kill Savanah - as that would be easy - blow up the whole dang place. True, an intended capture is a reasonable explanation – if Savannah herself is a crucial character for Weaver. Her words in the latest episode are somewhat dubious in this respect, in contrast to earlier remarks. Still, the “grey suits” might just operate under this assumption, valid or not. Btw, “grey suits” is a choice of words that reminds me of the “Grey Gentleman” in the children’s book [Momo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momo_(novel)) by Michael Ende (I’ve read it to my daughter lately). A lot of topics addressed on TSCC are also part of Momo – though done in a way far more suitable for children. Still, I thought your term was funny and eerily fitting in this, well rather obscure, respect. > [@simster](#): > > I’m very interested in Weaver’s true motives - when she told Ellison that “John Henry must survive in order for you to survive” - I was getting the impression of an imperial you, not a personal one. That was my impression too. She is definitely not interested in seeing the other side win; we might be dealing with a “the enemy of my enemy” situation here. > [@simster](#): > > Not so much star trek as war games - the only way to win is not play the game - I still think that Skynet is just playing Chess - a point alluded to in the earlier episode where Cameron was talking to Jessie - that that is what John was doing as well. Ah, yes. But, you see, in “reality”, not playing the game is playing the game because there is no beyond when “species” meet. The only way to not play the game might be to not meet at all. Another point (elaborating even further on the nebulous timeline(s) model of TSCC): “Self Made Man” (episode 11) seems to be a contradiction of the idea that TSCC might happen within one timeline that is reset by every time jump into the past. After all, the terminator arrives in the 20s, earlier by far than even Sarah Connor’s birth; which means that she shouldn’t exist at all in the newly established timeline. The writers might not have thought about the consequences of episode 11 or didn’t care – but it’s also possible that they tried to be clever. A time jump before the births of everyone we know, explains somewhat, why the Sarah Connor of TSCC isn’t identical to the one in T1 and T2; the same goes for Kyle and John, of course. It even gives an alternate explanation to the fact, that the Kyle of T1 was a lonely guy, who acted as if he hadn’t left anything (or anyone) behind. We still have to swallow the improbability that a Sarah Connor and a Kyle Reese would, once again, exist; but improbable is not impossible. If we consider the pre-existence of multiple timelines or the creation by a new timeline with every time jump, the problem with probabilities doesn’t exist at all, of course. And one last thought with regard to: > [@](#): > > Because the machines LOST. – \*\*Merijeek \*\* I’d like to add another reason – a highly speculative one and semi-meta in nature – why the opposite might be true. Although time travel exists in the terminator-universe, no time travelers have arrived from a time beyond the struggle between humans and machines. If humans won, it’s highly improbable that they would cease to travel back to make things “better” or to simply satisfy their curiosity and thirst for knowledge. If the machines won, they might have come to the conclusion that every time jump back endangers their victory needlessly; so they did/will do the strictly logical thing. Another explanation is that .. the animals have won. Machines and humans are wiped out and the time machine area has turned into a nesting place for birds. The last explanation is an almost closed time loop that has yet to be opened again. Yeah, I know, the totally meta reason is the correct one, but that one is no fun. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/224 "2009-04-05T13:16:05Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > Btw, “grey suits” is a choice of words that reminds me of the “Grey Gentleman” in the children’s book [Momo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momo_(novel)) by Michael Ende (I’ve read it to my daughter lately). I bought that book when it was released - after having read the covers off of Neverending Story - I need to go back and read that one… ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/225 "2009-04-05T22:32:40Z")
They won’t be back. [The Sarah Connor Chronicles has apparently been canceled](http://www.fmqinc.com/terminator-cancelled/), according to this report. The sets apparently have been struck. Obviously, this isn’t official. That’s why I haven’t made a separate thread about this. But I’m sure although there will be a lot of disappointed viewers, it won’t be a surprise when the official announcement comes through from FOX. Some reasons to support this: [ul] [li]Brian Austin Green has signed on with the CW Series “Body Politics” and is committed to at least 8 episodes. BAG also told Korbi Ghosh at Zap2it that he “was down” for making an appearance on 90210 sometime later this spring. [/li] [li]Summer Glau was asked about working again with Joss Whedon on “The Serving Girl” a short film ballet. Summer said “Right now I am on a series and when you are on a series, that’s all you do”. Two weeks later she is on site filming.[/li] [li]Lena Heady is directing a low budget film in England called “Drug Kill”. She will also have a minor role. Filming to begin in late 2009 or early 2010. Obviously there won’t be a conflict as this would have been smack dab middle of TSCC production.[/li] [li]Shirley Manson aka Weaverbot is back at home in Scotland where she will be undergoing an undisclosed “Medical Procedure”. Her agent says she won’t be back to the USA anytime soon.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/226 "2009-04-05T23:07:28Z")
Ah well. It sucks, but it’s not surprising. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/227 "2009-04-05T23:48:39Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > They won’t be back. [The Sarah Connor Chronicles has apparently been canceled](http://www.fmqinc.com/terminator-cancelled/), according to this report. The sets apparently have been struck. Obviously, this isn’t official. That’s why I haven’t made a separate thread about this. But I’m sure although there will be a lot of disappointed viewers, it won’t be a surprise when the official announcement comes through from FOX. > > Some reasons to support this: > > [ul] > [li]Brian Austin Green has signed on with the CW Series “Body Politics” and is committed to at least 8 episodes. BAG also told Korbi Ghosh at Zap2it that he “was down” for making an appearance on 90210 sometime later this spring. [/li] > [li]Summer Glau was asked about working again with Joss Whedon on “The Serving Girl” a short film ballet. Summer said “Right now I am on a series and when you are on a series, that’s all you do”. Two weeks later she is on site filming.[/li] > [li]Lena Heady is directing a low budget film in England called “Drug Kill”. She will also have a minor role. Filming to begin in late 2009 or early 2010. Obviously there won’t be a conflict as this would have been smack dab middle of TSCC production.[/li] > [li]Shirley Manson aka Weaverbot is back at home in Scotland where she will be undergoing an undisclosed “Medical Procedure”. Her agent says she won’t be back to the USA anytime soon.[/li][/ul] That sucks. I bet the finale doesn’t wrap things up any better than the Kyle XY finale did. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/228 "2009-04-06T02:50:26Z")
Oh, fuck me runnin’. Maybe someone can talk the writers into at least revealing where they were planning on going with the story, in a blog or somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/229 "2009-04-06T07:26:08Z")
Sigh. Say it isn’t so. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/230 "2009-04-06T08:36:38Z")
Damn, there is nothing left to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/231 "2009-04-06T13:16:20Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Oh, fuck me runnin’. Heh, heh. For some reason this just cracked me up this morning. > [@levdrakon](#): > > Maybe someone can talk the writers into at least revealing where they were planning on going with the story, in a blog or somewhere. My sentiments exactly. If someone happens upon information about what was going on with the plot, it’d be great if it were posted in this thread. Can anyone tell I’ve been more than a little confused? Thought so. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/232 "2009-04-06T14:34:32Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Some reasons to support this: > > [ul] > [li]Brian Austin Green has signed on with the CW Series “Body Politics” and is committed to at least 8 episodes. BAG also told Korbi Ghosh at Zap2it that he “was down” for making an appearance on 90210 sometime later this spring. [/li] > [li]Summer Glau was asked about working again with Joss Whedon on “The Serving Girl” a short film ballet. Summer said “Right now I am on a series and when you are on a series, that’s all you do”. Two weeks later she is on site filming.[/li] > [li]Lena Heady is directing a low budget film in England called “Drug Kill”. She will also have a minor role. Filming to begin in late 2009 or early 2010. Obviously there won’t be a conflict as this would have been smack dab middle of TSCC production.[/li] > [li]Shirley Manson aka Weaverbot is back at home in Scotland where she will be undergoing an undisclosed “Medical Procedure”. Her agent says she won’t be back to the USA anytime soon.[/li][/ul] Not to mention that, after the 3/27 episode, they were referring to this week’s episode as “the final episode”, as in the last one _ever_. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/233 "2009-04-06T15:54:01Z")
It’s too bad. I am guessing it is one of the more expensive shows to produce, so if it isn’t getting the numbers it seems the studio has little choice. ---
**Author:** ![wonderlust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonderlust/32/7237_2.png) [@wonderlust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderlust)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/234 "2009-04-06T15:57:03Z")
Suddenly now it’s not so sad that Derek was killed. Hey, they’re all gonna die next week! (well…effectively…) ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/235 "2009-04-06T16:20:11Z")
Whelp, the curse o’ Fox strikes again. ☹ Though at least it technically got a second season. I think this was actually the last _new_ TV series I started watching in the last year or so. Aaaand…canceled. Works every time. Screw it. See if _I_ ever watch a pilot again. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/236 "2009-04-06T16:53:01Z")
I’ve watched this from day 1 and never missed an episode. When the pilot came out, I humored myself and watched a show that would have been impossible for me to like. By the end of that first episode, it turned out to be my favorite show on TV. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/237 "2009-04-06T17:02:09Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > My sentiments exactly. If someone happens upon information about what was going on with the plot, it’d be great if it were posted in this thread. Can anyone tell I’ve been more than a little confused? Thought so. I wouldn’t be surprised if they add in a Sarah and/or John Connor voiceover that gives a little closure to the series. It would fit with the Terminator series as a whole and would give fans the answers they crave. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/238 "2009-04-06T18:02:42Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Whelp, the curse o’ Fox strikes again. ☹ Though at least it technically got a second season. > > I think this was actually the last _new_ TV series I started watching in the last year or so. Aaaand…canceled. Works every time. > > Screw it. See if _I_ ever watch a pilot again. They’d put it up against the wall the moment they moved it to the Friday Fox Death Slot. Dollhouse been cancelled yet? I haven’t bothered watching it, since it was clear that its Friday night slot was cancel-bait. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/239 "2009-04-06T18:47:11Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if they add in a Sarah and/or John Connor voiceover that gives a little closure to the series. > > It would fit with the Terminator series as a whole and would give fans the answers they crave. There will be closure to the current storyline. From the linked article: > [@](#): > > Earlier in the season, Executive Producer Josh Freidman said on the Offical FOX TSCC blog that Season Two would be shot to close up the season’s story line ONLY, not as a series finale, no matter what because there wasn’t enough time to end it right. Even if he knew they weren’t coming back at some point before the season two filming ended. So, it will be wrapped up at the end of the episode. It all depends on people’s expectations how neat the package is. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694/240 "2009-04-07T04:27:56Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > It’s too bad. I am guessing it is one of the more expensive shows to produce, so if it isn’t getting the numbers it seems the studio has little choice. I’ll point out that having an insolvent US automaker as a major sponsor didn’t help a frog-darned thing either… Man. That cancellation sucks. I’d be heartbroken if I hadn’t been expecting it since… I dunno, November last year. Kinda’ like a meta-level Judgment Day… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-season-2-part-2-thread-open-spoilers/485694.md?page=13)