# Terr and BrainGlutton

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406>\
**Category:** About This Message Board\
**Created:** [October 3, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406 "2015-10-03T20:59:37Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 14

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**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\
**Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/261 "2015-10-06T23:38:13Z")

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> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Sorry, but I read that 3 times and I can’t figure out what the hell it has to do with posters reporting rules violations.

What I mean is that it is not only liberals that would report rule violations, it will also be people that look at the facts regardless of the politics, IOW there is more than just partisans in a board like this one.

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**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\
**Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/262 "2015-10-06T23:50:07Z")

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> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> What I mean is that it is not only liberals that would report rule violations, it will also be people that look at the facts regardless of the politics, IOW there is more than just partisans in a board like this one.

Yes, but the whole point is that when you decide to look and report can be influenced by the poster in question. It’s the same thing we see in debates, where folks on the left are challenged less than folks on there right. I’ve seen threads go on for a full page before anyone bothers to check if the OP is accurate or not-- but only when the OP is a left-leaning poster. Let a right-leaning poster start an inaccurate OP, and the thread will never get beyond a few posts before someone challenges it. It’s nothing to be ashamed of, it’s like **Richard Parker** noted earlier-- bias built into the system.

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**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\
**Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/263 "2015-10-06T23:53:45Z")

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> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> It’s nothing to be ashamed of, it’s like **Richard Parker** noted earlier-- bias built into the system.

I wonder if that is just a coincidence, or if a message board that was originally devoted to fighting ignorance attracted mostly liberal members.

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**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/264 "2015-10-07T00:00:10Z")

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> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Yes, but the whole point is that when you decide to look and report can be influenced by the poster in question.

Indeed, I’m just saying that **another** thing tipping the balance is that many points or memes that are of “the stupid, it burns” variety are coming from the conservative side.

I’m old enough to realize that it was not always like that. Nor I deny that the liberals do come also with irrational points.

For my part I’m on the record of putting down people from the left that are against GMOs or nuclear power. **If** they are also breaking the board rules then yes, the attention they get also will make it more likely that I will press the report button.

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**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/265 "2015-10-07T00:03:49Z")

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> [@Bricker](#):
>
> You joke, but in reality this is a good insight. I am actually loathed by some posters because of my politics. It’s not a joke for me.

I’ll be bold enough to suggest that some take issue with your posting/debating _style_, not your politics _per se_.

If this statement is off-topic, I’ll desist from this point forward.

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**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/266 "2015-10-07T00:13:54Z")

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I am having a hard time not believing that the “I’m so oppressed and discriminated against!” conservative posters here are not whooshing the rest of us, satirizing “micro-aggressions” and all that. Because boy their claims of discrimination are far more gossamer than the most hypersensitive of those claims.

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**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/267 "2015-10-07T00:17:00Z")

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> [@Bricker](#):
>
> Right – and then later, when the banning is debated, people will eagerly point out the warnings received as justification, without ever admitting that the warnings themselves are not delivered even-handedly.

Wait–is “the liberal” here **tomndebb**? Do you really think its his status as a liberal, not his status as a **moderator who partook in the discussion** , that most risks bias in how he’s moderated?

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**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/268 "2015-10-07T00:53:30Z")

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> [@Bricker](#):
>
> Look at the “butthurt” post above, suggesting I simply am craven. But I’m more inclined to say I’m risk-averse. I have no doubt that another warning or two would be fodder for calls for my banning, with pious reference to my wanton disregard for the rules, and never once a reference to the calls for me to stop being “a whipped pup” that preceded it.

I am risk averse, and with much more reason than you, which is why I weaseled around “butthurt,” hinted at “craven,” and did not allow “sound like a massive baby” to cross my fingertips. 😉 You are playing with the modern conservative fantasy about being oppressed which, regarding you, HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN REALITY. As I explained earlier, as a member of the SDSAB you have reasons for concern about warnings that have NOTHING to do with your politics, but you have not been modded for your politics–ever.

I suspect your “whipped pup” concerns are disingenuous: Unlike **Shodan** you don’t like to make a show of pissing people off. You prefer taking a loftier, more lawyerly tack, coming this\>\<close then, when another poster reacts, you whip out your plausible deniability and show how you did not exactly say what you are accused of. It’s your thing, enough that “to bricker” is a verb with some of us. We all have our things.

In closing, you are not being oppressed and to claim so leaves you looking far more thin-skinned than we who have known you for 15 years know you to be. I mean, who do you think you’re talking to? We KNOW you. I, for one, do not buy your claim that one measly warning years ago made you timid, when your posts show otherwise. Give it up and play the hurt innocent to some jury of strangers somewhere.

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**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/269 "2015-10-07T01:38:01Z")

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> [@TroutMan](#):
>
> **Bricker** has one example in 15 years, **Shodan** has an example from 5 years ago where he was only noted, and neither of those are clear-cut examples of unfair moderation.

Indeed, in Shodan’s case it’s an example of the board’s lenience towards conservative posters, as he posted a remark with the word “lie” _immediately_ after a moderator tried to settle things down by putting a halt to posters calling each other stupid. This sort of running up to the very edge of what is acceptable is warnable. (Years later Shodan would report a post with the term, “deliberately distorted”.)

> [@dropzone](#):
>
> I suspect your “whipped pup” concerns are disingenuous: Unlike **Shodan** you don’t like to make a show of pissing people off. You prefer taking a loftier, more lawyerly tack, coming this\>\<close then, when another poster reacts, you whip out your plausible deniability and show how you did not exactly say what you are accused of. It’s your thing, enough that “to bricker” is a verb with some of us. We all have our things.

I suspect that Bricker’s lawyerly tactics are what piss people off. On this interpretation, I take Bricker’s side. We’re here to fight ignorance and deploying his legal knowledge while making fine distinctions is legitimate and even to be encouraged in my view. I’ll _also_ concede that the _alloy_ of a lawyerly approach with conservatism causes him extra problems. That’s not to the good.

The idea that the mods are out to get him is something I disagree with, though I do think Bricker got tripped up by a shifting civility bar.

Incidentally, prior to his April 2015 warning I’d say the slings and arrows actually improved his posting quality, ironically. Since then, his speech may very well have been chilled, I don’t know. (Note: “Chilling effect” is a term often used in first amendment contexts and free speech discussion. Cite: [Chilling effect - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect) ) Usage here is a little overwraught: I’ll quote wolfpup again from the June 2015 thread and add emphasis:

> [@Does "Deliberately Distorted" = "Lied"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-deliberately-distorted-lied/722598/72):
>
> The first point is of interest to me, too, relative newbie here though I am, and I offer my opinion that it’s quite different from accusing someone of lying. The prohibition against accusing someone of lying or being a liar is something that I think most of us can live with because it’s unnecessarily insulting and hostile. **But when we start outlawing anything that can even remotely be considered possibly synonymous, then IMHO we start to seriously impair the ability to communicate on this board.**

That’s the actual _potential_ downside of a higher civility bar. I don’t take conservative oppression arguments too seriously. I do think that some posters are better at some shticks than others. I’m careful with one liners, as I often fear they are insufficiently humorous (also my language can veer towards turgidity). I think Bricker’s formalism makes for strong arguments; in the rarer and rarer occasions when he mouths off he inspires pile ons. I suspect that rankles a little, but again it also makes for stronger arguments on his part, IMHO.

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**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/270 "2015-10-07T01:43:41Z")

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> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> I hope that’s not me you’re thinking of. \<3
> 
> Honestly, I think if there is a bias, it’s not in moderation. It’s just that if Joe Liberal says something snarky, there are fewer conservatives to report his post.
> 
> If Joe Conservative says something snarky, there are more people on the other side, and thus more of a chance that someone is gonna hit that report button, bringing the incident to a mod’s attention.

[QUOTE=John Mace]  
I noted this a few pages back, and the more I think about it, the more I think this may be in play.  
[/QUOTE]

One piece of information that might inform us as to whether this could be part of the problem or not is: Can one of the mods give us a rough idea of how many warnings are issued because a mod discovers the offending post on his or her own vs a mod being notified by one of the posters that an offending post exists? If the latter is the source of only a small percentage of the warnings issued, then it’s probably not a significant source of bias.

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**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/271 "2015-10-07T01:47:53Z")

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> [@Colibri](#):
>
> **Shodan** referred to their behavior in “the present.” Therefore I cited the number of warnings over the same period of time, from **BG’s** suspension in November 2015 until now. **BG** received five warnings from his one-week suspension until now. **Terr** received eight warnings in the same period of time (actually one month less, since his suspension is included in that), including six before his suspension and two after. Over the past two years or so, **Terr’s** behavior has been worse.

> [@Bone](#):
>
> If I’m understanding you correctly, that’s not a fair comparison. You are including in Terr’s totals incidents before his suspension. If the suspension is supposed to serve as a kind of ‘this is the point of no return’ kind of thing, then really that’s the point where both were on even footing. So since BG’s suspension, he’s received 5 warnings, and then gets another suspension. Since Terr’s suspension he’s received 2 warnings, and gets banned.
> 
> It was stated earlier that BG’s previous suspension was more like suspension-lite, so I’m not sure you’d agree with that alignment. And I don’t necessarily think it is evidence of actual bias, but it does appear to be incongruous treatment.

C’mon Bone. It’s not hard.

Terr racked up more warnings over the past 2 years. He also received what has been depicted time and time again as typically a final warning. People are usually banned on the first warning after a one month suspension (though not always).

1 week suspensions have never been depicted as such. Never. This was a straightforward application of past practice.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/272 "2015-10-07T01:56:33Z")

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> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#):
>
> C’mon Bone. It’s not hard.
> 
> Terr racked up more warnings over the past 2 years. He also received what has been depicted time and time again as typically a final warning. People are usually banned on the first warning after a one month suspension (though not always).
> 
> 1 week suspensions have never been depicted as such. Never. This was a straightforward application of past practice.

I don’t really follow suspensions so I’m not familiar with the practice. The way I was interpreting the moderation was that regardless of how you get to the suspension point, you got there. That’s why I’m making that distinction. Obviously if we are adhering to the 1 week vs. 1 month suspension then different treatment could follow. No example is perfect 🙂

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/273 "2015-10-07T02:27:39Z")

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> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#):
>
> […] I’m careful with one liners, as I often fear they are insufficiently humorous (also my language can veer towards turgidity). […]

You a funny guy, homie. Sayin’ “I’m careful with one liners” and then layin’ down somethin’ like that. “_ **can** _ veer towards …” Hee, hee, hee.

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**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/274 "2015-10-07T03:44:35Z")

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> [@TroutMan](#):
>
> There’s absolutely no doubt that conservative posters get beat up more by other posters. A **lot** more. And when you’re continually attacked for your views, every mod action probably starts to feel the same - here we go, more of the same.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I rarely attack the board’s conservatives for their views themselves. I _have_ gone after them when they play that game where they find a counterargument or counterexample to some point raised in a thread, and regardless of how weakly argued (or dubiously sourced, or tangential, or raised in bad faith, or the handiwork of obvious hacks) it is, they expect their counterpoints to be treated as equally legitimate, no questions asked. Everyone’s arguing “A”, so I’ll find someone arguing “B”, and now there’s no way to be sure “A” is right because “B” exists. **Terr** did that shit _constantly_, and it’s tedious, and soon the thread turns into pages of **iiandyiiii** multiquote arguing with some stubborn ass who gets to turn the thread into a personal wank-fest. It’s BORING.

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**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/275 "2015-10-07T05:35:54Z")

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One problem with assuming that the number of times conservatives get shouted down vs the number of times liberals get shouted down is indicative of bias, is the hidden (IMO, wrong) assumption that behind it all, conservatives are actually right half the time and liberals are right half the time.

It is possible that liberals are actually right about issues more often than conservatives are, and the majority of Dopers (who, IMO are centrist not liberal) side with those who are right, not Right.

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**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/276 "2015-10-07T05:42:02Z")

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> [@MrDibble](#):
>
> It is possible that liberals are actually right about issues more often than conservatives are, and the majority of Dopers (who, IMO are centrist not liberal) side with those who are right, not Right.

Are you talking about threads in GQ? Cause that’s the place where people seek factual answers.

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**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/277 "2015-10-07T06:13:04Z")

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> [@Bricker](#):
>
> Fascinating.
> 
> Both Shodan and I have said that we feel constrained in what we can post, and believe that we run a greater risk of being moderated for functionally identical behavior than do our liberal brethern.
> 
> And you hold us up as examples of how to post without getting in trouble, as though that proves that the moderation is equal.
> 
> Do you not perceive any possibility that your thinking may be blinded here?

Nope. Because there is no evidence your claims are true. You bring up something that isn’t even connected to being moderated for your conservatism, and **Shodan** is one of the harshest people on this board. He skates the line. If what you say were true, **Shodan** would be on the edge of being banned.

Neither of you have brought remotely convincing arguments. I already explained why your argument is unconvincing, and you didn’t even try to provide a counterargument.

**Shodan** can in fact post in the way you claim you can’t. So either there is some other reason you can’t post that way, or, more likely, you are mistaken.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/278 "2015-10-07T06:31:10Z")

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> [@Omar\_Little](#):
>
> Are you talking about threads in GQ? Cause that’s the place where people seek factual answers.

Well, this example from GQ shows that factual answers are not under the domain of the ones that deny that humans are responsible for the current warming observed. I should note here that after years of investigating the issue it is clear that in reality those posters are relying on sources that are using ideology to get things wrong.

The mods did give notes (and one warning) to the contrarians for not following the OP guidelines, the only warning was because a poster did make a political jab in GQ, but it is clear though that if the jab was coming from a liberal it would had received a warning too.

> **[When did global warming start becoming a problem?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=770602)**
>
> Even though the world has been warming since the 1800s, when would you say climate change became noticeable? My guess would be the 1980s when people started talking about it, and in a major way probably when the El Nino of 1998 hit and especially...

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/279 "2015-10-07T07:43:00Z")

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> [@Omar\_Little](#):
>
> Are you talking about threads in GQ? Cause that’s the place where people seek factual answers.

I invite you to consider the subtle distinction between “correct” and “right”…

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terr-and-brainglutton/733406/280 "2015-10-07T11:03:12Z")

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> [@MrDibble](#):
>
> I invite you to consider the subtle distinction between “correct” and “right”…

And here we have the exact problem. Views are being shut down not because of truth or factual correctness, but because they don’t fit the echo chamber’s view of “right”. That’s an absurd thing to do if you want to fight ignorance, or just want to be a reasonably educated and well rounded person. It’s literally Orwellian, trying to destroy certain opinions and viewpoints.

Just because _you_ consider something to be racist, for example, doesn’t mean it actually is, and it also doesn’t mean the view is wrong.

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