# Terrell Owens are they really serious about the Hall of Fame? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 17, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880 "2015-02-17T01:37:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/61 "2016-02-08T16:31:46Z")
Seriously, if you’re surprised TO didn’t get in this year, you haven’t been paying attention to how the HOF has been treating wide receivers. Art Monk, Chris Carter and Tim Brown were all way, way overdue by the time each got in. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/62 "2016-02-08T16:44:00Z")
Sure. For me, at least, the criticism isn’t just about Owens; it’s more about Hall of Fame voters in general. In the two major sports where i pay any attention to the Hall of Fame – football and baseball – a considerable percentage of the eligible voters seem to be fucking morons who are more interested in dispensing morality lessons than evaluating player quality. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/63 "2016-02-08T18:19:16Z")
Marvin Harrison is a worthy selection. I concede that, if I were told “You have to choose between Marvin and T.O.,” I would probably rate T.O. a little higher and vote for him this year. But as it is, I expect T.O. will get in within a few years. A lot of great receivers had to wait a while, including Cris Carter and Art Monk. I’m already on record as being a Raiders fan who didn’t think Kenny Stabler was quite Hall material… but for crying out loud, IF you’re going to vote for someone, do it while he’s alive to enjoy the honor- not out of guilt AFTER he’s dead! ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/64 "2016-02-08T19:13:49Z")
They did the same exact thing with Ron Santo in baseball. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/65 "2016-02-08T21:00:02Z")
Harrison has been eligible for a couple more seasons than T.O. > [@Fleetwood](#): > > If I were building a roster late nineties through 2010 or so, I would take TO over Marvin Harrison every chance I got. Then you’re crazy. Owens was a better all-around player than Harrison; if he had Manning throwing to him for 10 years he’d probably be much closer to Jerry Rice than he is. Harrison had better hands and was a better route runner and short field receiver but Owens was better top to bottom. However, Harrison never caused a locker room to implode. Owens created a locker room rift on _every team he was on_, except possibly during that one year with the Bills where nobody cared anyway. If real life was a video game and you could turn T.O. off after the game, he’d be perfect. But it’s not, and you couldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lorne\_Armstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@Lorne\_Armstrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorne_Armstrong)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/66 "2016-02-08T22:08:42Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > If you are referring to Steve Mariucci, he got fired halfway through his last season so maybe TO was on to something. > > Again, by Steve Mariucci, a dope as a coach. Mariucci was fired after the end of the 2002 season in a power struggle with the owner and GM (exactly like Jim Harbaugh). And he wasn’t “dope.” Most 49er fans look back on Mariucci as a good coach who got screwed over by the ownership (again, like Harbaugh). I believe it was in Philadelphia where Owens was benched for his locker room behavior. He was benched by Mariucci for one game for showboating on the Cowboys’ star. (Gotta love TO for that.) ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/67 "2016-02-09T09:08:59Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Or, you know, wait your turn. Cris Carter waited how many years to get in? He’ll get in next year or the year after. They typically don’t put in multiple players from the same position in the same year. Waiting your “turn” is such an obnoxious and arrogant concept when it comes to Hall of Fames. Its so typical of fat, overweight nerd mostly white sportswriters to get their revenge on real athletes by torturing them like this. But, OK, Cris Carter had to “wait his turn”. if it was down to him and T.O., yeah, I guess Cris Carter should have sat down and waited his “turn”: TO REC 1,078 v Carter 1101 YDS 15,934 v Carter 13,899 AVG 14.8 v Carter 12.6 TDS 153 v Carter 130 ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/68 "2016-02-09T09:21:14Z")
> [@Lorne\_Armstrong](#): > > Mariucci was fired after the end of the 2002 season in a power struggle with the owner and GM (exactly like Jim Harbaugh). And he wasn’t “dope.” Most 49er fans look back on Mariucci as a good coach who got screwed over by the ownership (again, like Harbaugh). > > I believe it was in Philadelphia where Owens was benched for his locker room behavior. He was benched by Mariucci for one game for showboating on the Cowboys’ star. (Gotta love TO for that.) 72-67-0 .518 in regular season, 3-4.429 postseason. Won 13 and 12 games in 1997 and 1998 with Steve Young, failed to get the Super Bowl despite having arguably one the greatest QBs of the generation; without him went 4-12 and 6-10. By some miracle, went 12-4 in 2002 but lost twice to the Rams to concede the division, and only won the division in 2003 with a weak 10-6 record because the Rams imploded. I’m not going to even get into when he was exposed as a fraud in Detroit. The only reason this Jackass has credibility in the NFL is because he is a good looking guy who lucked into a good QB situation in San Francisco, and is now everywhere on national TV, which automatically makes him the smartest guy in the room to most of the sheeple. I wouldn’t trust this guy to coach my puppy bowl team. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/69 "2016-02-09T14:22:48Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > TO REC > 1,078 v Carter 1101 > > YDS > 15,934 v Carter 13,899 > > AVG > 14.8 v Carter 12.6 > > TDS > 153 v Carter 130 You know that Owens and Carter largely played in different eras with different rules for defensive backs, right? Carter was #2 in almost every receiving category at the time he retired. Owens played most of his career under the current 5 yard defensive holding restrictions, which makes comparing numbers from then and now largely pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/70 "2016-02-09T16:18:11Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Waiting your “turn” is such an obnoxious and arrogant concept when it comes to Hall of Fames. The whole NFL HOF election process is obnoxious. No more than eight may be elected in a year. Consider the NFL in a given year has over two and a half times the number of players in MLB. The percentage of eligible players that are allowed to be voted in is way too small. Therefore, you can’t help but have multiple snubs every year, which will result in a “wait your turn” system. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/71 "2016-02-09T17:26:20Z")
[QUOTE=every conversation ever had about TO] Trash trash trash trash trash trash trash trash But he sure is fast! Yeah, I know, right? REAL fast. [/QUOTE] That’s why. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/72 "2016-02-10T07:08:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You know that Owens and Carter largely played in different eras with different rules for defensive backs, right? Carter was #2 in almost every receiving category at the time he retired. > > Owens played most of his career under the current 5 yard defensive holding restrictions, which makes comparing numbers from then and now largely pointless. There’s such a spread between the two to rid that comparison negligible. Besides, their careers overlapped 6 years. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/73 "2016-02-10T14:55:13Z")
If you think there is a significant spread between the two I can only assume you didn’t read your own statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/74 "2016-02-10T20:30:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If you think there is a significant spread between the two I can only assume you didn’t read your own statistics. You’re absolutely wrong here - there’s a huge spread betwen [Owens](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OwenTe00.htm) and [Carter](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CartCr00.htm). Owens gained 2000+ more yards and scored 23 more touchdowns than Carter - in fewer games. Owens averaged 72.8 yards and 0.70 TDs per game; Carter averaged 59.4 yards and 0.56 TDs per game. Extrapolate those over a full season: Owens gets 1165 receiving yards and 11 scores, while Carter gets 950 yards and 9 TDs. In terms of 2015 players, Owens matches Rob Gronkowski (1176/11) and Carter pairs with Michael Crabtree (922/9). Think there’s a “significant spread” between Gronk and Crabtree? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/75 "2016-02-10T20:43:15Z")
Yes, there’s a spread. The spread is not so large as the expected spread based on the eras they played in. Owens retired in 2010, Carter in 2002. Those eight years [were very good ones in which to be an NFL wide receiver](https://sportslistoftheday.com/2013/09/10/nfl-league-per-game-and-total-passing-yards-by-season-1932-2013/). ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/76 "2016-02-10T21:40:01Z")
When only Carter was playing (8 years), NFL teams averaged 204.7 (±10.2) passing ypg. During the 7 years both players were active, teams averaged 207.3 (±3.8) passing ypg. When only Owens was active, teams averaged 210.6 (±7.4) ypg. So over his career, Carter was responsible for about 29% of the average NFL teams passing offense (59.4 ypg/205.9 ypg); Owens for 34.8% (72.8 ypg/209.1 ypg). In terms of 2015, that’s 14.1 ypg - bigger than the difference between the two players when you look at their stats in a vacuum. You can look at touchdowns the same way: Over Carter’s career, he scored enough TDs to account for 43% of the average team’s passing scores; Owens accounted for 52% of the average team’s passing touchdowns over his career. In 2015 terms, that difference is 0.14 TDs/game - the same as the difference in the players’ straight statistics. Yeah, passing has gotten more important in the NFL, but the bulk of that shift has happened in the last 8-10 years. In fact, passing offense didn’t exceed 1995 (when only Carter was playing) until 2010 (Owens’ last season). The difference between 1987-2002 (Carter’s career) and 1996-2010 (Owens’ career) is nowhere near as big as the difference between the two players’ statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880/77 "2016-02-14T05:45:48Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > But, OK, Cris Carter had to “wait his turn”. if it was down to him and T.O., yeah, I guess Cris Carter should have sat down and waited his “turn” What the hell? At what point was it ever down to him and T.O.? Carter was elected into the Hall of Fame before TO was ever eligible. The idea of having to “wait your turn” may be pretty stupid, but I’m not sure you’ve grasped what we mean by it. Carter had to wait over 6 years after eligibility to get in. Owens’ window just opened this year. Yeah - if TO has to wait longer than Carter to get elected, you may have an argument. But then, arguing that Player X is better than Player Y and thus should get into the HOF faster is an even stupider internet argument than the whole “wait your turn” nonsense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrell-owens-are-they-really-serious-about-the-hall-of-fame/712880.md?page=3)