# Terri Schiavo + 5 years **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872 "2010-03-26T14:18:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/121 "2010-03-31T14:15:04Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, you are right, and the doctors who said she was a vegetable were paid for by the husband who wanted Terry dead so he could marry the woman he had children with and was living with before? They were paid for by her husband in the sense that they were handling her medical care. They were her treating physicians, not expert witnesses who examined her for litigation purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/122 "2010-03-31T14:16:53Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I have not changed my mind. > > I consider a right-to-die my choice and not the courts or public opinion. I believe a spouse should trump the rights of the parents (in my view a spouse knows you far better than your parents do and, presumably, loves you and would want to carry out your wishes). Her friends (who I wager also have a better idea than parents would of what Terri would want) were also in agreement with the husband of what they felt Terri would want in this case. > > Add to that Terri’s brain was mush. Not even mush, it was liquid. There was no way she could ever be rehabilitated. Period. I think every doctor (or very nearly so) were in agreement with this. > > About the only good thing to come out of that whole debacle was a great many people ran off and wrote living wills so it would not happen to them. I’m one of them. The entire episode didn’t change my mind, it simply forced me to get off my butt and take action to prevent something like this from happening to me. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/123 "2010-03-31T14:31:11Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, you are right, and the doctors who said she was a vegetable were paid for by the husband who wanted Terry dead so he could marry the woman he had children with and was living with before? or after Terry’s strange accident about which he was question extensively. It is not clear exactly what happened, but it is clear he wanted her dead. It made his life less complicated. Now I don’t know exactly what happened or whether she was a vegetable or not. But the whole scenario was raft with questions that needed to be answered. I don’t have the faith most do in MRI’s and things like that, there is more to being human than just a body. This is beyond ignorance. You area accusing a man of serious crimes. Given your history here I’m not even going to bother asking if you have any evidence, it’s quite obvious that you’re pulling it all out of your ass so you can spew more stupidity about your pet fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/124 "2010-03-31T14:47:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They were paid for by her husband in the sense that they were handling her medical care. They were her treating physicians, not expert witnesses who examined her for litigation purposes. She was a ward of the court by then. Michael had also set up a trust fund with her settlement to pay for her care. That money would have gone to her care with or without him, so her regular staff would have had nothing to gain by lying for Michael Schiavo. They were on salary anyway, so it’s not like their personal pay was affected in the first play. The Schindlers paid doctors specifically to say what they wanted them to say. Michael did not. The court also appointed one more, completely disinterested doctor to examine her, and he came to the same conclusion her regular doctors did. The only doctors who were paid to argue for a specific opinion were the Schindler’s doctors. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/125 "2010-03-31T14:58:22Z")
Nothing in the intervening years has changed my stance on Terri Schiavo. What happened to her was monstrous and demonstrated that there are worse things than death. When I was following the ambulance carrying my husband after he collapsed, all I could think was “Please don’t manage to resuscitate him. Please don’t manage to resuscitate him.” He had been at least 20 minutes without any oxygen, and the prospect was horrifying to me. Yes, there are worse things than death. I feel pity for Terri’s family, but no respect. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/126 "2010-03-31T15:05:50Z")
No, I’ve not changed any of my opinions on the case. I still believe that she had no hope of recovery, and that Michael Schiavo did the right thing. I still believe that medical ethics should allow direct euthanasia rather than simply withdrawing care. And I still very firmly believe that if my family _ever_ said the sorts of things about **DoctorJ** that her parents said about Michael, they’d better _hope_ I never woke up because there would be some serious hell to pay. As for how we can dare to decide when someone is dead in all meaningful ways, I look at this way. There is a lot more to life than mere physical existence. If I can never again see the faces or hear the voices or feel the touch of the people I love, if I can never again express to them in any way how much I love them, if I can never again wake up in my own bed with the cats shoving me off the pillow, if I can never again sit in my back yard with the sun on my face and wind in my hair and the smell of growing things in my nose, can never taste a wonderful meal, can never read a book, can never do see or hear or feel any of the things I love…what is there left in life for me? Sitting in a hospital room breathing in and out? It’s not enough. It might be for some people, but not for me. And the people who love me, they know that. The question is not how dare they make the decision that such a life is not worth living for me. The question is how dare anybody else have the unmitigated gall to say that they’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/127 "2010-03-31T16:24:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, they were not. This was known at the time and has already been discussed in this thread. Please get your facts straight. Her care was handled by the court. He was not living with another woman when Terri Schaivo had her “strange accident.” She and Michael Schaivo were married at the time and while it was sudden, some causes have been suggested. He began a relationship with another woman many years later with the blessing of the Schindler family. > Clearly. But you for got to mention Michael’s mistress that was the reason he wanted Terry dead. Otherwise there would have been no reason not to let the parents care for her. This event was a painful one that caused laws to be changed and even Congress to get involved. It will not be forgotten. It was an affront to morality and common sense. I hope we do better next time. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/128 "2010-03-31T16:26:35Z")
> [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](#): > > That is a f\*cking despicable accusation to make. You should be ashamed of yourself. Not an accusation, truth, and much more humane than starving someone to death. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/129 "2010-03-31T16:30:36Z")
Even a person who had expressly stated her wish to die in a situation like the one which occurred? The only true part of your post was “I don’t know”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/130 "2010-03-31T16:35:12Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > But you for got to mention Michael’s mistress that was the reason he wanted Terry dead. I didn’t mention it because it’s false. I know that because I’ve actually read about the case. > [@](#): > > Otherwise there would have been no reason not to let the parents care for her. Are you going to continue spouting this junk? Let’s skip to the conclusion: the wishes of adults be damned, if their parents are grieving and can’t let go, they should be able to do whatever they want with the bodies of their children. If an adult has a stroke and becomes a vegetable with no mental activity, the parents should be able to hook him up to a feeding tube, take him home and put him in a terrarium if that’s what they feel like. Because hey, if he’s braindead anyway, what’s the harm? Who would be heartless enough to deny a parent’s desperate wish to put their child in a terrarium instead of letting them die? Nevermind what we’ve heard in this thread from people who have lost spouses or even been in that state themselves. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/131 "2010-03-31T16:43:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I didn’t mention it because it’s false. I know that because I’ve actually read about the case. > Are you going to continue spouting this junk? Let’s skip to the conclusion: the wishes of adults be damned, if their parents are grieving and can’t let go, they should be able to do whatever they want with the bodies of their children. If an adult has a stroke and becomes a vegetable with no mental activity, the parents should be able to hook him up to a feeding tube, take him home and put him in a terrarium if that’s what they feel like. Because hey, if he’s braindead anyway, what’s the harm? Who would be heartless enough to deny a parent’s desperate wish to put their child in a terrarium instead of letting them die? > > Nevermind what we’ve heard in this thread from people who have lost spouses or even been in that state themselves. Your conclusion is not logical. He did want his wife dead, and stated so to one of the nurses who cared for her. Never mind, it is just a sad event, an immoral event. Enough said. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/132 "2010-03-31T16:47:25Z")
Well, he went through years of litigation to protect her right to die. However, claiming that “he wanted her dead”, especially in the context of vague allusions to murder, is deceitful. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/133 "2010-03-31T16:50:38Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > He did want his wife dead, and stated so to one of the nurses who cared for her. Again, this is not true. I know all of this was explained to you five years ago - [here’s one thread where that happened.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6288992) (In light of this discussion, the title is also pretty funny.) And yet you press on no matter how many times you’re given the facts. > [@](#): > > Never mind, it is just a sad event, an immoral event. Enough said. I take that to mean you’re done posting about this? If so, thank you. I’d rather hear from people with insight into the situation, like **blinkie** or **jsgoddess**. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/134 "2010-03-31T16:57:04Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > But you for got to mention Michael’s mistress that was the reason he wanted Terry dead. Otherwise there would have been no reason not to let the parents care for her. This event was a painful one that caused laws to be changed and even Congress to get involved. It will not be forgotten. It was an affront to morality and common sense. I hope we do better next time. The decision was in the court’s hands. Not his. He did not have the ability to turn over her care to the parents. More significantly, they had no standing to interfere with Terri’s end of life decisions in the first place, but just to be clear on the facts, she was a ward of the court, not of Michael Schiavo. The decision to discontnue life support was made by the court, not by Michael Schiavo. And the woman that he started a family with (after years of futile hope that Terri would revive, and at the encouragement of her aprents to move on with his life) had nothing to do with anything. He could have married her at any time. I know you’ve never been one to acknowledge facts, but you’re way out of line and completely uninformed on this. You are villifying a man without any basis for doing so. What laws were changed, by the way? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/135 "2010-03-31T17:01:23Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Now I don’t know exactly what happened or whether she was a vegetable or not. But the whole scenario was raft with questions that needed to be answered. I don’t have the faith most do in MRI’s and things like that, there is more to being human than just a body. Well, you can lack faith in MRIs but how about autopsies? You know, where they actually removed her brain and looked at it after she died? The autopsy fully confirmed everything the MRIs were telling them. Most of her brain was actually gone. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/136 "2010-03-31T17:04:42Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Your conclusion is not logical. He did want his wife dead, and stated so to one of the nurses who cared for her. Never mind, it is just a sad event, an immoral event. Enough said. This is an unverified and highly dubious allegation made by one mentally unstable nurse. The allegation is implausible on its face because, at that time, Michael still could have had her life support discontiued any time he wanted. He had not turned her over to the court yet (and he did so because he wanted the decision to be impartial. He didn’t have to). She was only alive because _he_ was keeping her alive. Just for the recpord, though. People expressing wishes for loved ones to die in those situations is completely normal. The stress and grief and uncertainty is overwhelming. Wishing for it to be over, and for the loved one to pass on instead of hanging on in an unnatural, artifical limbo is a completely normal human emotion that you can probably hear expressed in any hospice anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/137 "2010-03-31T17:06:44Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What laws were changed, by the way? Well, there was the Palm Sunday Compromise, which was pretty much a joke, and as a private bill had and has no effect on anyone other than the Schiavos (and Schindlers). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/138 "2010-03-31T17:07:40Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Your conclusion is not logical. He did want his wife dead, and stated so to one of the nurses who cared for her. That is an unsupported lie from the Michael-demonizers. The nurse who you are ‘quoting’ in this matter was demonstrably a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/139 "2010-03-31T17:31:45Z")
As an aside, I’m kind of surprised no one ever made a movie out of this story. It would seem tailor made for a Hollywood treatment. Michael Schiavo’s own story is extremely compelling – the exquiste care he gave her, his phenomenal commitment (he trained and got certified as a nurse to be able to take better care of her. How many guys would do that?), his unbending resolve and integrity in the face of the most vicious and insidious public demonization. There’s also the Schindlers turning on him. After testifying under oath that Michael was a loving and caring husband, and supporting him and encouraging him for years, they suddenly flipped onhim after learning he was going to use all her settlement money for her medical care instead of giving them a cut. That was when they started making the allegations of abuse (allegations that the court itself investigated and found baseless). It would make for a pretty good movie, I think. Of course, the Schindler supporters would probably hate it if it conformed to facts instead of the fabricated fantasy of Michael Schiavo as a tank top wearing wife beater, adulterer and killer, but who cares waht they think? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872/140 "2010-03-31T19:57:06Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I’m one of them. The entire episode didn’t change my mind, it simply forced me to get off my butt and take action to prevent something like this from happening to me. And made ME glad I had already done it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-5-years/533872.md?page=8)