# Terri Schiavo, Now that we have all calmed down **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375 "2005-05-25T02:31:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/261 "2005-06-22T16:25:00Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Are you a psychiatrist? I have never seen such a fanciful explanation of the case. > > What political party do you speak of? Some say it was the religious right that did it, others say this and that. Where is your evidence? Please show it. What part did ALL of the grandstanding politicians in this case belong to? Do you really need it spelled out for you? And no, I am not a psychiatrist, but if every doctor but the quacks you paid to tell you what you want to hear and the quack in Congress who saw a heavily-edited fifteen minute video taken from HOURS of footage is telling you that your daughter just isn’t in there anymore, there’s not enough of the right parts of her brain for her to recover, she’s been in a PVE for fifteen long years and there IS no positive prognosis, and you still decide to keep her juddering shell alive just to assuage your own feelings of loss and guilt, then yes, you are a mentally unstable person in deep, deep denial. Regardless of your personal views, **lekatt** , reality is not subject to a majority vote. Nor is it subject to one’s own perceptions. If I see purple dragons with fourteen-inch fangs walking in the parking lot outside my work, and tell people about it, I’d pretty much call it a fair cop when I was hauled away in the huggy jacket by the nice young men in their clean white coats. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/262 "2005-06-22T16:26:17Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > What **part** did ALL of the grandstanding politicians Grrr… _partY_ ---
**Author:** ![CapnPitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@CapnPitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CapnPitt)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/263 "2005-06-22T16:31:18Z")
**Siege** in #256 and **tom** in #260 have explained this all better than I could have hoped to. **lekatt** I hope the weather’s nice in whatever world you’re in. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/264 "2005-06-22T19:08:25Z")
> [@CapnPitt](#): > > **Siege** in #256 and **tom** in #260 have explained this all better than I could have hoped to. > > **lekatt** I hope the weather’s nice in whatever world you’re in. The world I live in doesn’t call opinion fact, even if it comes from the “professionals.” As for the weather, it’s a little warm right now. We will learn the truth in time, we always do. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/265 "2005-06-22T21:47:14Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You have misjudged me, try reading my posts again. Terri’s case was a lot like your cousin’s, not your grandmother’s. I am glad your cousin recovered. Had Terri had that opportunity, who knows. Are you for real? You talk of honesty and truth and you post this crap? Do you know _anything_ about this case, or are you just using this thread as an exercise in your Yodaing skills? Terri spent 3 months in the hospital following her collapse. Michael then had her moved to a **REHABILITATION** facility for **AGRESSIVE THERAPY**. He tried to bring her home after several months, but apparently felt she could benefit from continued **REHABILITATION** , so he returned her to the **REHABILITATION** facility. After another 4 or 5 months, he took her to California for **EXPERIMENTAL THERAPIES** in the hopes of bringing her back to him and her family – he was not ready to give up hope. Two months later she’s returned to a **REHABILITATION** center and then transferred to a **SKILLED NURSING CENTER** where she is given **AGRESSIVE PHYSICAL AND SPEECH THERAPY**. And through all this, Michael Schiavo attended and completed **NURSING SCHOOL** for the sole purpose of learning how to better care for his wife. She had PLENTY of “opportunity” to experience the level of recovery that **Siege** ’s cousin was blessed with. But not everyone’s brain and body responds the same way to therapy. Terri’s, sadly, deteriorated, and over time, atrophied and liquified beyond hope of revival. The medical professionals knew this for a **FACT** , based on numerous tests over the course of **15 YEARS**. The Medical Examiner **CONFIRMED** this **FACT** upon direct examination of her liquified brain matter. These **FACTS** are well-known regarding this case. I therefore can only conclude that you are being willfully _dis_honest in your condescending demand for truth and honesty. Oh, and Love. Let’s not forget Love. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/266 "2005-06-22T23:00:40Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, I feel truth, and so do you. As Yoda said: “you will know truth by its peace and calm.” > > There is a lot to be learned from your feelings, especially about yourself. > > By this, I am not saying we should do away with science, just understand there is more than science, in this world, that leads to knowledge. Yoda also said we shouldn’t fear death, nor should we go to unnatural and extreme measures to prolong life. That when death comes we should rejoice. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/267 "2005-06-22T23:07:42Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The words were written by George Lucas, an enlightened individual who accumulated a fortune by knowing human thinking and how to improve it. > > He also wrote: “Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering.” His insight is spiritual. His movies move and inspire others to be greater than they think they are. That’s why they are so popular. Oh brother. You know, I’m a huge SW fan, but Lucas was trying to make a fun space adventure based on the old Flash Gordon series. Yes, there are spiritual elements that stem from his beliefs, but if your spirituality is based _Star Wars_, I pity you. Besides which, in the movie, Anakin’s whole problem was his refusal to let go of someone and accept that death is a natural part of life. Terri’s condition was NOT like **Siege** ’s cousin. She COULD NOT improve. How many doctors said it? There is such a thing as being TOO open-minded, you know. Her brain was deteriorating, and she had made NO PROGRESS in FIFTEEN YEARS!!! In fact, quite the opposite, she was getting worse. Don’t tell us you are searching for the truth, when the truth is right in front of your face and you refuse to acknowledge it because it isn’t what you wanted to hear. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/268 "2005-06-22T23:27:31Z")
> [@](#): > > The world I live in doesn’t call opinion fact, even if it comes from the “professionals.” The world you live in does not call anything fact. After reviewing this thread further, I note that it was a mistake to bother responding to you. The point of discussion with those whose minds are closed is to persuade others who may hold the same erroneous opinions but who do not create alternative realities where words have no common meaning. Since it is unlikely that anyone reading this thread shares your odd view of the world, there really is no point in exchanging barbs with you. Since there is not actually anyone listening from your side of the discussion, I will not trouble you here again. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/269 "2005-06-22T23:32:30Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The world I live in doesn’t call opinion fact, even if it comes from the “professionals.” As for the weather, it’s a little warm right now. Boy, you’re right there. The world you live in calls _facts_ opinions. > [@lekatt](#): > > We will learn the truth in time, we always do. Some do, some don’t. ---
**Author:** ![bubba\_jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@bubba\_jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubba_jr)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/270 "2005-06-23T00:27:16Z")
**SHAYNA** here is a link that shows the whole timeline along with all of the court documents. Just to back up what your were saying about rehab since everybody knows that she was never given any rehabilitation at all. :rolleyes: [http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html](http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/271 "2005-06-23T01:32:53Z")
Wow, and here I thought **lekatt** was dishonest when in a different debate, after I posted a link to a psychic that defined what “cold reading” was, he still insisted no psychic even knew what that was! A husband, therapists, doctors, judges and then autopsy people knew about Terri’s chances or treatment. It is beyond dishonest to just simply say “who knows”! ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/272 "2005-06-23T02:16:45Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The world you live in does not call anything fact. > > After reviewing this thread further, I note that it was a mistake to bother responding to you. The point of discussion with those whose minds are closed is to persuade others who may hold the same erroneous opinions but who do not create alternative realities where words have no common meaning. Since it is unlikely that anyone reading this thread shares your odd view of the world, there really is no point in exchanging barbs with you. > > Since there is not actually anyone listening from your side of the discussion, I will not trouble you here again. It’s ok, not necessary to exchange barbs, only information. You can never really tell who is listening, but I do get supporting emails from those who don’t want to be criticized. No one is ever alone. I don’t believe in black and white worlds anymore, and that all things must be either right or wrong. My perspective is really not such an odd world view, it is held by many. It is I who should stop trying to communicate with people who know all the truths of the world. People whose every thought is sacred truth. Forgive me. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/273 "2005-06-23T02:34:53Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > After reviewing this thread further, I note that it was a mistake to bother responding to you. The only problem with this is, **lekatt** is persistent, if nothing else. He will continue posting long after everyone else throws in the towel, and having gotten in the last word, concludes victory. Just watch; he cannot resist posting again, even if his response is just a restatement of his martyrdom. Always has to have the last word. _Always._ ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/274 "2005-06-23T02:39:31Z")
Well tell ya what. Let’s just not allow that. Let’s simply answer everything with “is not” “is too” or “ain’t neither”. It makes as much sense, and is less taxing on us 😃 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/275 "2005-06-23T03:03:01Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It makes as much sense, Does not! > [@](#): > > and is less taxing on us Is not! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/276 "2005-06-23T05:57:38Z")
BTW, it appears that the “Now that we have all calmed down” in the thread title was wishful thinking. Gov. Jeb Bush, at least, seems to think he can still squeeze some more political capital out of this business by ordering a medical review of the case. [http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci\_2816111](http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_2816111) ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/277 "2005-06-23T10:54:16Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t believe in black and white worlds anymore, and that all things must be either right or wrong. Okay, I’ll give it a try. **lekatt** , **Shayna** has posted a summary of the facilities (post #265) that Terri was placed in during the time immediately after her collapse. Do you believe that list is accurate (ie, right) or inaccurate (wrong)? I’m not asking you to say anything about any other part of her post. Please just evaluate the list and give us your answer. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375/278 "2005-06-23T11:35:29Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t believe in black and white worlds anymore, and that all things must be either right or wrong. I find this statement to be very much at odds with your implication that you have a love for truth, nay you were _raised_ with such a love whereas those you are arguing with were not. You also stated that people on the other side of the argument have a hatred for the “main stream” of our society. Your thinking, at least that expressed by what you post here, is nearly entirely dichotomous, in fact. You do not allow that someone else may have a love for truth yet come to a different point of view than you. > [@](#): > > My perspective is really not such an odd world view, it is held by many. You also, for one so in tune with a love for truth, have an odd need to appeal to the authority of the majority (here, also in your statement that you have gotten supportive emails, and your attempt to align yourself with the “main stream”). It strikes me that one who was so very comfortable with the truth as to be immersed in it would recognize that majority opinion and truth share only occasional coincidence, rather than any functional relationship. > [@](#): > > It is I who should stop trying to communicate with people who know all the truths of the world. People whose every thought is sacred truth. Forgive me. Sad words, for someone so free from dichotomous thinking and so immersed in the love of truth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terri-schiavo-now-that-we-have-all-calmed-down/305375.md?page=13)