# Terrible episodes of great shows. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 4, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934 "2020-03-04T18:47:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BrickBat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@BrickBat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickBat)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/101 "2020-03-06T16:54:37Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > The second Tony Soprano dream epi from S5 iirc. Yeah, that one sucked. The worst part was one of the dream sequences where one of their friends/neighbors sings _the entire song_ of ‘3 Times A Lady’. It was brutal to endure. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/102 "2020-03-06T17:01:33Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There was an episode of _Red Dwarf_ where the characters were trapped under water and attacked by a giant squid. They were all killed and woke up to discover that they’d been playing an immersive virtual-reality game, and not very well. Their real identities are complete opposites of their game personae; the cat, rather than suave and debonaire, is awkward and geeky, etc. After being appalled at their real selves, they decide to commit suicide. > > [spoiler alert]The “real” world they woke up to turns out to be an hallucination. The squid ink contained a chemical that caused people such despair that they would kill themselves. It was a brilliant mind fuck for most of the episode, and didn’t do anything to diminish how much I cared about the characters. Yes, but it was explained within the confines of the show that the characters were being messed with. That’s fine. In the Buffy episode, it was left open as to whether or not there was a “real” Buffy which was imagining all this (at the end, mental patient Buffy decided to stick with her fantasies, much to her parent’s distress). Which isn’t fine. When Dallas did this, it never again was the #1 show on TV and was cancelled 4 years later: > [@](#): > > Airing opposite NBC’s increasingly popular Miami Vice, Dallas revealed all on September 26, 1986. Principal—who now sported slightly longer hair owing to the break in shooting—explained to Bobby that she had dreamed his death. > > “Pam, what’s the matter?” Duffy asked. “You look like you’ve seen a ghost.” > > **For many viewers, that may have been a better alternative. Katzman’s dream explanation essentially wiped out a year’s worth of continuity, resurrecting one actor’s character killed the year before (Jenilee Harrison, bombing victim), erasing Pam’s marriage to Beck, and eroding the audience’s faith in the show.** Though Dallas lasted another four seasons, it never again captured the top slot, ceding the top nighttime soap honors to Dynasty. > **[Bad Dreams: When Bobby Ewing Returned to Dallas](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/79815/bad-dreams-when-bobby-ewing-returned-dallas)** > > Patrick Duffy swore his oil tycoon character was gone for good. Nearly doubling his salary changed his mind. And, before one brings it up, I think the finale of _Newhart_ broke the same contract with its viewers and can be (unpopularly, I know) placed on this list for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/103 "2020-03-06T17:07:38Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > In the Buffy episode, it was left open as to whether or not there was a “real” Buffy which was imagining all this. Which isn’t fine. As I recall, the episode came down slightly stronger on the side that the whole series was a dream, and Buffy was just a comatose patient in a mental hospital, than on the side that only that episode had had dream elements. If it had been a standalone 1hour tv drama, no one would doubt that the conclusion of the episode meant that the real Buffy was imagining Willow/Spike etc. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/104 "2020-03-06T17:10:53Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > As I recall, the episode came down slightly stronger on the side that the whole series was a dream, and Buffy was just a comatose patient in a mental hospital, than on the side that only that episode had had dream elements. If it had been a standalone 1hour tv drama, no one would doubt that the conclusion of the episode meant that the real Buffy was imagining Willow/Spike etc. Exactly. (And I clarified this point in an edit.) And I wouldn’t argue that it “came down slightly stronger”, I would argue that it stated the entire show was just a figment of another characters imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/105 "2020-03-06T17:12:03Z")
Yeah, I shouldn’t have said “slightly stronger” ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/106 "2020-03-06T18:27:04Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Yes, but it was explained within the confines of the show that the characters were being messed with. That’s fine. > > In the Buffy episode, it was left open as to whether or not there was a “real” Buffy which was imagining all this (at the end, mental patient Buffy decided to stick with her fantasies, much to her parent’s distress). Which isn’t fine. > > When Dallas did this, it never again was the #1 show on TV and was cancelled 4 years later: > > [Bad Dreams: When Bobby Ewing Returned to 'Dallas' | Mental Floss](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/79815/bad-dreams-when-bobby-ewing-returned-dallas) > > And, before one brings it up, I think the finale of _Newhart_ broke the same contract with its viewers and can be (unpopularly, I know) placed on this list for the same reason. It’s a fair comment. Any change, ending that obliterates past history is problematic. With Newhart, Mary Frann was understandably not happy with that ending for good reason. Bob Newhart to some extent tried to make amends for that. It’s the same deal with St. Elsewhere. Do you want the ending to be the ONLY thing that is remembered? ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/107 "2020-03-06T21:01:58Z")
Most of first-season Star Trek: The Next Generation was pretty awful, as were several season two episodes, like “The Outrageous Okona”. Deep Space Nine was my favorite Star Trek series, but the worst episode by far was “Let He Who Is Without Sin”. Worf joins an eco-terrorist group for… reasons? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/108 "2020-03-06T21:02:56Z")
But _honorable_ reasons, I’m sure. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Calavera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calavera/32/70_2.png) [@Calavera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calavera)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/109 "2020-03-06T21:29:15Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > In the Buffy episode, it was left open as to whether or not there was a “real” Buffy which was imagining all this (at the end, mental patient Buffy decided to stick with her fantasies, much to her parent’s distress). Which isn’t fine. I don’t see it matters that much. Did you enjoy _The Princess Bride?_ 95% of that is explicitly not real, just a story a guy is telling his grandson. Doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy the story if it plays within it’s own rules, like “mental patient” Buffy’s Buffyverse does. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/110 "2020-03-06T21:42:56Z")
But the Buffy one doesn’t play within the rules - it literally introduces a ‘real’ universe and states ‘hey, this show you’ve been following is nothing but a figment of another character’s imagination’, and leaves it at that. In short, the “Buffy”… and her Universe… we’ve been following (for **six years** ) isn’t even real within the characters existence. And that’s a cheat, and bad storytelling. A ‘story within a story’ does not do that because the ‘story’ itself exists within the characters existential framework. There’s nothing in TPB which states that the _storyteller_ doesn’t exist, but that’s precisely what happened in the BtVS episode. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/111 "2020-03-07T04:09:19Z")
_Samurai Jack_ had several damn near iconic episodes, but at the other end of the spectrum we had “Chicken Jack”: Jack gets magically turned into a chicken. Some of the series’ episodes were light-heartedly whimsical, but this was just plain stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/112 "2020-03-07T04:28:51Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It’s been a long time since I watched The West Wing but I remember not being impressed by the “Isaac and Ishmael” episode, which was in response to the 9/11 attacks. (To be fair, it’s not an easy thing to address in a fictional show.) > [@dalej42](#): > > I’ll also go with Isaac and Ishmael. Way too soon after 9/11. We wanted to get back to our normal lives and now we’re being smacked on the head with a very special episode that is separate from the usual timeline. I get the dislike for “Isaac and Ishmael”, but consider that episode was conceived, written, cast, filmed, and broadcast three weeks and a day after the 9/11 attacks. A typical West Wing episode would take three weeks for post-production between the end of shooting and the broadcast date. Aaron Sorkin felt like he had to acknowledge 9/11 in some way with his show … and it wasn’t great, but I give him a little credit. “Access” (the flash-forward PBS special about CJ that 1) never mentions that she becomes Chief of Staff, because that hadn’t been thought of yet by the showrunners at the time of production, and 2) hinges on a key event early in Bartlet’s presidency that we’d never heard of before) is pretty bad. Also “Ninety Miles Away” (in the past, Leo runs into superspy Kate in disguise! In Cuba!) is truly forgettable. And “The Long Goodbye” (CJ goes home for a class reunion, hooks up with Matthew Modine, and deals with her Alzheimer’s-stricken dad) isn’t even really a West Wing episode. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/113 "2020-03-07T07:46:49Z")
This is a reply to the last Buffy post, reply doesn’t seem to be working on tapatalk. No it doesn’t, the episode allows for the Idea that this is the case. It is still up to the viewer to choose whether they want to accept your interpretation, or the in-universe interpretation about it being a ploy to weaken Buffy. The last scene does point a bit to the former, but not to the extent that no other interpretation is possible (imho). Verstuurd vanaf mijn moto g(6) met Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/114 "2020-03-07T08:12:27Z")
I just rewatched the final 10 minutes and it’s more explicit than I remembered: the final scene is of the ‘real’ Buffy in the asylum with the Doctor saying “she’s unresponsive. We’ve lost her.”, fade to black, roll credits. The last scene with ‘imaginary Buffy’ is her regaining her powers, then asking for an antidote. _But it’s followed by the above_, implying that taking the imaginary antidote (fake Buffy) led to the ‘we’ve lost her’ diagnosis from the doctor (real Buffy). ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/115 "2020-03-07T08:24:09Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > I honestly don’t think Law & Order has had a bad episode. And yes I have watched all twenty seasons. OK, so a mediocre L&O is still better than a magnificent _Full House_. And I, too, have watched every episode multiple times (except “Aftershock”-- only once for that one). But “Castoff” is actually outstanding as being just, offkey, or something, and a number of critics agree with me. Regarding “Aftershock,” Dick Wolf himself has expressed regret at the way he wrote out the Claire Kincaid character. He said he wished he could have Jill Hennessey back as a defense attorney the way he had Carey Lowell back a few times. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/116 "2020-03-08T04:42:23Z")
“Cold Case” had consistently excellent episodes, except for a very brief run where they had a very explicitly anti-man bias. We got it, really, WE.GOT.IT. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/117 "2020-03-08T07:11:31Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > I get the dislike for “Isaac and Ishmael”, but consider that episode was conceived, written, cast, filmed, and broadcast three weeks and a day after the 9/11 attacks. A typical West Wing episode would take three weeks for post-production between the end of shooting and the broadcast date. Aaron Sorkin felt like he had to acknowledge 9/11 in some way with his show … and it wasn’t great, but I give him a little credit. I agree. I don’t know if you remember, but the month or so following 9/11 was a very strange period of time. Everybody felt like they had to say something, whether or not they had anything to say. Considering the alternatives, I think Sorkin did a pretty good job. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/118 "2020-03-08T07:21:51Z")
Revelation…what was THAT all about??? Callbacks…fan service…a RIDICULOUS mystery box. And then: “JESUS IS BACK AND HE’S PISSED!”…God I hate Abrams. He and his bullshit deconstructions. I mean, I agree it jumped the shark way back with The Resurrection and slowly went downhill, but the final ep? Gimmicky stunt writing/directing. #NotmyJesus ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/119 "2020-03-08T07:56:12Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > M_A_S\*H - the worst episode has to be “Hawkeye”, in which Hawkeye gets some sort of head injury and spends the entire rest of the episode performing a monologue to keep himself awake. I don’t recall if any of the rest of the cast appeared in it at all, but certainly not much. You’ve evidently forgotten [Major Fred C. Dobbs](https://mash.fandom.com/wiki/Major_Fred_C._Dobbs_(TV_series_episode)). Executive meddling at its worst. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934/120 "2020-03-08T09:37:28Z")
Evert sitcom in which the central figure (e.g. Rosanne) decides to have a baby. Some non-sitcoms, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-episodes-of-great-shows/848934.md?page=7)