# Terrible ice hockey death **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** hockey-nhl\ **Created:** [October 31, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397 "2023-10-31T22:53:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/1 "2023-10-31T22:53:58Z")
" SHEFFIELD, England — Police are investigating the death of American ice hockey player Adam Johnson after his neck was cut by a skate blade in a game in England. Johnson, 29, was playing for the Nottingham Panthers at the Sheffield Steelers when he suffered the skate cut in a Champions Cup game on Saturday. He died at a hospital. He was a Minnesota native who appeared in a total of 13 NHL games with the Pittsburgh Penguins in 2019 and 2020." [Link.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/police-investigating-death-former-nhl-player-adam-johnson-whose-neck-w-rcna122938) They are calling it an accident but viewing the footage, it looks like the opposing player was trying to take a couple of players out of the action. I’m certainly not suggesting he intentionally killed Johnson, but I grew up going to hockey games and it does look like it was an intentional hit. Just a terrible tragedy for all involved and the families. My heart goes out to them. Video link spoiler: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3QDE1Vi-po](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3QDE1Vi-po) Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/2 "2023-10-31T23:15:55Z")
Seemed unnecessary to raise the skate there. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/3 "2023-10-31T23:16:04Z")
Sounds like the third time someone’s neck was severely slashed by a skate. I recall two NHL instances of players nearly dying, leaving lots of blood on the ice. Time for everyone to wear neck guards. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2023, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/4 "2023-10-31T23:34:33Z")
In January 2022, a prep school student in Connecticut died after falling on the rink. Another skater ran into him and accidentally cut him in the neck with his skate blade. And I found multiple other incidents, though not all to the neck.(Some to the wrist or leg, for example.) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/5 "2023-11-01T07:16:58Z")
The move looks intentional. There might be criminal charges against him. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/6 "2023-11-01T07:22:53Z")
Matt Petgrave was the offending skater who lifted his skate up high. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/7 "2023-11-01T11:48:58Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > The move looks intentional. There might be criminal charges against him. It is being investigated for sure. I’m not sure how easy or difficult it would be to prove anything. I don’t know England’s levels of charges. Voluntary Manslaughter? Involuntary Manslaughter? In the US, I don’t see a murder charge that could be successfully prosecuted. Then again, I am not a lawyer. > **[Police investigate ex-NHL player Johnson's death](https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/38780605/adam-johnson-death-police-investigation-england)** > > Police in England are investigating the death of former NHL player Adam Johnson, who died in what his team described as a "freak accident" during Saturday's game. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/8 "2023-11-01T12:14:51Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I don’t know England’s levels of charges. Voluntary Manslaughter? Involuntary Manslaughter? The potential charge is involuntary manslaugher > Conduct taking the form of an unlawful act involving a danger of some harm that resulted in death (“unlawful and dangerous act manslaughter”) [Homicide: Murder, manslaughter, infanticide and causing or allowing the death or serious injury of a child or vulnerable adult | The Crown Prosecution Service](https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-manslaughter-infanticide-and-causing-or-allowing-death-or-serious) But the legal commentary I’ve seen is that any charge is unlikely unless Petgrave did something that’s beyond the kind of contact that routinely happens in the sport. The fact that it would be considered a foul under the rules is not sufficient. The video shows that Petgrave intended contact, but there’s a lot of pretty brutal contact in ice hockey. A manslaughter charge would probably require that he intended to make contact with his skate, and I doubt that (or I doubt that there’s sufficient evidence for that). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/9 "2023-11-01T12:16:01Z")
Wow. I was expecting to see something low to the ice, not a kick to the head. It does look intentional to me, but it’s gonna be hard to prove anything, I think. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/10 "2023-11-01T12:26:05Z")
I watch a lot of hockey and I’ve never seen anyone kick someone in the neck like that. I was expecting the player to be on the ground, too. I’m not saying it never happened in the NHL (a high kick), but it must be pretty rare. I don’t even recall seeing someone kick a player at all. I mean, knees happen all the time, but kicks? I can’t even find a youtube video (with a quick search). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/11 "2023-11-01T13:13:44Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The potential charge is involuntary manslaugher Again, I can see that being convictable if the UK system is the same as ours, though I believe they do not require 100% unanimous juries in criminal trials. I think they can have two dissenters, though my information is certainly not up to date. I won’t be surprised if he gets off with nothing, though will his hockey career be over? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/12 "2023-11-01T13:25:27Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I mean, knees happen all the time, but kicks? Do you think he really intended a kick, or was it supposed to be a knee and he lost his balance? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/13 "2023-11-01T13:29:47Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > > [@RitterSport](#): > > > > I mean, knees happen all the time, but kicks? > > Do you think he really intended a kick, or was it supposed to be a knee and he lost his balance? - Looked deliberate to me. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/14 "2023-11-01T13:31:01Z")
Same here. Even a high shot like that with the knee would be a very unusual check. When I said “knees”, it was sticking out your knee to trip someone up, or hit them in the knee or maybe thigh. Not a shot to the belly. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/15 "2023-11-01T13:51:18Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Time for everyone to wear neck guards. My son constantly bitches about wearing his neckguard. I will make sure he sees this video to reinforce the point. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/16 "2023-11-01T14:54:12Z")
Intent does not come into play, for Involuntary Manslaughter. From [https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/involuntary-manslaughter-overview.html](https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/involuntary-manslaughter-overview.html) — Charges of involuntary manslaughter (sometimes called “criminally negligent homicide”) often come in the wake of a deadly car crash caused by a motorist under the influence of alcohol or drugs. **While the motorist never intended to kill anyone, their negligence in operating a vehicle while impaired is enough to meet the requirements of the charge.** Bolding mine. To try to prove intent would be much harder. Matt Petgrave was negligent with his skates and it resulted in the death of Adam Johnson. Simple. (But IANAL) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/17 "2023-11-01T15:01:12Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Intent does not come into play, for Involuntary Manslaughter. Per the link I posted above, the UK distinguishes the following two types of involuntary manslaughter: > Conduct that was grossly negligent given the risk of death, and did kill (“gross negligence manslaughter”); > > Conduct taking the form of an unlawful act involving a danger of some harm that resulted in death (“unlawful and dangerous act manslaughter”). I think the second type does involve an intentional unlawful act that _leads_ to death, but where the intent was not to cause death. But I have no idea which type might fit better with the facts here, IANAL either. ---
**Author:** ![ThatCanadianGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@ThatCanadianGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThatCanadianGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/18 "2023-11-01T16:43:12Z")
When I first read this story, I thought, what a tragic accident. I thought the player fell on the ice and another player accidentally cut his throat with his skate, just couldn’t avoid him. Looking at the video, to me it’s clear he had intent to hurt. You just don’t lift your leg up like that unintentionally. Players in all sports have to realize it’s just a sport and wanting to hurt an opposing player is just not sportsmanlike and that a skate can be a lethal weapon. I hope the police charge him. Probably won’t stop the next yahoo out there wanting to hurt someone else, these types of people have no conscience. ---
**Author:** ![ThatCanadianGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@ThatCanadianGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThatCanadianGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/19 "2023-11-01T16:48:09Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Time for everyone to wear neck guards Apparently, the English Ice Hockey Association has now introduced a neck guard mandate effective January 1. So that was fast. > **[Neck guard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neck_guard)** > > A neck guard (also called a Kim Crouch collar) is a piece of protective equipment worn by players around the neck area, particularly by (though not exclusively) players in the ice skating team sports of ice hockey, bandy, ringette, and rinkball. The guard is designed to prevent injury to the neck by ice hockey pucks, ringette rings, bandy balls, the metal blades on ice skates, and various types of sticks, i.e. ice hockey sticks. This piece is especially critical to goaltenders, especially ice hoc... ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397/20 "2023-11-01T19:38:55Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Do you think he really intended a kick, or was it supposed to be a knee and he lost his balance? I don’t see how anyone watching that video could conclude he accidently kicked him with his skate. > [@ThatCanadianGuy](#): > > Apparently, the English Ice Hockey Association has now introduced a neck guard mandate effective January 1. So that was fast. From what I know (that I learned from TV), the English aren’t encumbered with the ‘freedom’ idiots that we yanks are. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrible-ice-hockey-death/992397.md?page=2)