# Terrified sick man in bad mood sentenced to die? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2000, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703 "2000-09-19T07:59:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/41 "2000-09-20T15:14:23Z")
[http://161.58.238.106/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001905.html](http://161.58.238.106/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001905.html) Sorry for the double post, but it is being discussed at Snopes, in case anyone is interested. You have to verify stuff like this before going off and accusing people. ---
**Author:** ![Germ\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Germ\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Germ_Boy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/42 "2000-09-20T15:23:51Z")
To reiterate: I talked with a Carla McClain at the paper and she confirmed that the story is real. I’ve not yet received the fax so cannot respond to any amplification of the details. I suspect that there is a sequence of events not readily apparent from the story that to this odd decision. The next level of verification is the hospital and I doubt they will be forthcoming. Remember, most of the world is every shade of gray. We hope for crisp black and white but are rarely rewarded. The Germ ---
**Author:** ![Ayesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Ayesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ayesha)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/43 "2000-09-21T01:59:11Z")
Excuse me if I come off as defensive. I checked this story to the best of my ability. The hospital will not talk, exect to say they have nothing to say. All I could do was make sure it was in a real newspaper not the weekly world news. I checked the link to Snopes, they haven’t learned anymore than we have execpt that the story with pictures was in the newspaper yesterday according to a snopes poster. Perhaps I am a little to close to the situation being a hepper myself. I have contacted the hospital about my concerns as have other posters on the hepatitis-central board. This frightens us, we know it could be us facing this and that may make me a little less detached than I should be. But I intend to keep pushing for this man in anyway I can, I would hope someone would be over emotional and defensive if it were me. If I offend anyone that isn’t my intent. ---
**Author:** ![johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnson)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/44 "2000-09-21T02:20:32Z")
I checked the AZ Star’s website today, and there were a lot of letters to the editor about this story. A subscription is required to search their archives (took me a while even to find the news link–not one of the better-designed media websites). There are two issues which lead me to believe we didn’t get the whole story: [ul][li]The reporter apparently has yet to fax the info to Mr. Germ, or respond to any e-mails–could it be she realizes she went a bit too far?; and[/li] [li]I’ve found no trace of the story from any other source, including the Star’s sister paper. It’s hard to believe this wouldn’t have been run in at least one national outlet if it were in fact true.[/li][/ul] Well, one more issue–it does seem extremely difficult to believe. I don’t find it at all odd that the hospital won’t discuss the matter–they’ve been portrayed in a very bad light, and there are matters of patient confidentiality which are usually adhered to in cases such as this. I eagerly look forward to some clarification, either confirmation that each and every professional involved is a complete heartless bastard, or confirmation that the media once again sensationalized a story that has two sides. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/45 "2000-09-21T06:33:55Z")
From the Snopes MB: > [@](#): > > Chava > snopesmaster posted 09-20-2000 09:23 AM > It appeared on the front page of the Arizona Daily Star (a Tucson paper) yesterday, complete with pictures of the fellow and his kids. I would guess it’s real. Since the medical people mostly refrained from comment, the story is necessarily biased in favor of the patient. Presumably there will be follow-ups, and if the patient is truly in the right, amends will be made. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/46 "2000-09-21T13:32:07Z")
> [@](#): > > or confirmation that the media once again sensationalized a story that has two sides. My bets are all on this statement. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/47 "2000-09-21T15:24:57Z")
Ayesha, you certainly did NOT offend me. I can understand why it upset you. I guess I just tend to be a cynic sometimes… I think it’s outrageous that people can act like assholes for no reason and get whatever they want-especially in stores. But, a man is dying, scared shitless (uh, sorry, bad pun, not intended), and is punished most cruelly for being justifiably pissed off. I’d raise holy ol’ hell if I had to wait forty minutes if I had the shits! ---
**Author:** ![Shaky\_Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90db22/32.png) [@Shaky\_Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shaky_Jake)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/48 "2000-09-21T16:34:06Z")
As a wise friend of mine used to say, “there’s three sides to every story: Your side, my side, and the truth.” That said, there are some stories I don’t particularly need the other side of. “You beat your kid?” “Yeah, but listen to my side.” “I don’t need to hear your side” Maybe this fella clearly demonstrated that he would be noncompliant with his treatment. In that case, the liver would have been a waste going to him. Still, some of the things coming from the medical staff are just plain outrageous - regardless of “the rest of the story”. > [@](#): > > "Success of a transplant depends on a patient’s willingness and ability to comply with medical directions and on having a support system to help him through the entire process. During this process, the patient develops a relationship with our team, a relationship that is permanent. You just don’t get a transplant and then go off fancy-free. They’re with us for life. It’s a serious commitment - it’s a marriage. So the patient must refrain from causing any adverse relationship with the team and must refrain from destructive behavior. Just plain not true. People get transplants, and later move away, and their care is managed by another physician in their new location. I’ve cared for 20 yr. olds who got new lungs due to CF. They’re expected to stay in the same geographic location for the rest of their lives because they’re “married to the team”.? I think not. They went away to college, got married, had lives. They’d come back to visit, and stop by to see us. But they weren’t “married” to the original team. This strikes me as serious spin control. Acting like an asshole doesn’t reflect upon "a patient’s willingness and ability to comply with medical directions ". I speak from experience. Short of criminality, how likable a patient is shouldn’t enter into the decision to list that patient. "The patient must refrain from causing any adverse relationship with the team "? I’m just speechless about this comment, and can only refer to Ayesha’s above comment on this. > [@](#): > > While he was in the hospital - both before and after the diarrhea incident - nursing charts repeatedly describe Rasmussen as “pleasant,” “cooperative,” “appropriate,” “social” and “agreeable.” His psychological evaluation on the day he was discharged from UMC is marked “WNL” - “within normal limits.” It was only during one time period in the middle of his hospital stay that nursing charts note “agitation” and “impatience,” as well as “grieving” and “scared.” The reporter apparently had access to his chart, which is significant. This is why it’s not a good idea to put subjective material in the chart. Describe the behavior, and leave it at that. If his nurses described him as “pleasant,” “cooperative,” “appropriate,” “social” and “agreeable” (and nursing notes are a great source for what really went on), and the hospital later tries to make him out to be a belligerent, noncompliant asshole…well, this just makes it difficult. So, he was “grieving” and “scared” , and was expressing concern about what was going to happen to his kids if he dies, and he wasn’t a happy-go-lucky guy? Got a word for ya: compassion. > [@](#): > > Nakazato then recommended that Rasmussen move out of state and try to get on the list at another transplant program. Well, which is it, does he rate a transplant or not? What’s with the “go somewhere else and get it” shit? That strikes me as a “we don’t like you and don’t want to be bothered with you” attitude. Either he’s a transplant candidate, or not. You accepted him into your program, but now think he’s not an appropriate candidate, but he should go somewhere else - where presumably he will be an appropriate candidate? That’s fucked up. Look, they evaluated this guy, and accepted him as a transplant candidate. The evaluation process is rigorous, with a thorough mental/emotional/psychological work-up. At least where I come from. If he was ok then, but not now, that should set off alarm bells - it always did when I worked with transplant patients. People don’t walk in off the street, get diagnosed with hepatitis and liver failure, and jump right into a transplant program… He was likely hospitalized several times prior to being considered for transplant. If he was just an abusive, belligerent asshole by nature who wasn’t going to be compliant with his treatment there would have been evidence of it which would have, or should have, been considered when he was evaluated for transplant. He wasn’t Hannibal Lechter from the get-go…or they have serious deficiencies in their evaluation process which calls the quality of their program into question. Whatever is going on may not be amenable to a “quick fix” along the “modify your behavior” or “take this pill” lines. The staff may have to modify _their_behavior as well. I worked with transplant patients, who, deep down…well, they struck me as assholes. They had a good many friends and family members who thought otherwise. And they were compliant - just not pleasant, at least not in my mind. Guess who bore the brunt of making the relationship work? Me, the health care professional. That was part of my job, and my responsibility. > [@](#): > > Mr. Rasmussen has demonstrated through specific actions or inactions that he cannot make this commitment. Glasby added: “This is not just a single incident.” But she declined to elaborate further, saying “UMC is not comfortable discussing patients publicly.” Guess what - you already did. So you make disparaging statements about your patient, and then refuse to elaborate further? That’s terrific. Very professional. Reminds me of an LBJ quote (maybe paraphrasing): “Hell, of course it’s not true. But make the bastard deny it”. I’m sure there’s more to the story. I seriously doubt it’s enough to explain or excuse the above. As I said, maybe the guy doesn’t rate a transplant. Maybe they made a mistake in the initial evaluation. That’s a tough spot to be in, because they made a commitment to him, just as they expect him to make a commitment to them (see the “marriage” comments), or at least to the treatment regime. Nonetheless, what’s exhibited here stands alone, regardless of “the rest of the story” Shaky Jake ---
**Author:** ![Ayesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Ayesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ayesha)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2000, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/49 "2000-09-22T05:57:13Z")
My feelings exactly Shaky Jake. But then as I have admitted, I am a bit biased and I know it. ---
**Author:** ![TaleraRis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@TaleraRis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaleraRis)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2000, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/50 "2000-09-22T20:05:13Z")
Also, not to be a bitch johnson, but she stated quite a lot of things in that article that can be verified. Things from his chart, quotes from people. And in journalism there’s two little things called slander and libel. This isn’t some shit little tabloid, it’s a real paper, and real papers, while being able to slant things in their articles through the use of certain quotes or facts, are expected to give unbiased and more importantly, true facts. There’s enough in this article that could be proven wrong easily if it’s not true to get her and the newspaper in some deep shit if she doesn’t have her facts straight. So for that reason I believe she does. ---
**Author:** ![johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnson)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2000, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/51 "2000-09-23T02:24:46Z")
I have no doubt that most if not all of the facts and quotes that were reported are true. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that the reporter was fabricating the story out of whole cloth (although let’s bear in mind that a _Washington Post_ reporter won a Pulitzer about 15 years ago for a completely made up story about a young kid addicted to cocaine, or something along those lines). But we may not have heard the rest of the facts. Is Mr. Rasmussen a closet alcoholic? Has he refused to take medications? I only meant to suggest there may be more to the story than we’ve heard. I’m well aware that the media are supposed to be objective. In general, they succeed. But every newspaper fails every now and again–the smaller ones more than the larger ones. I’ll say again that it’s very odd Germ Boy hasn’t reported any faxes from the reporter, no one who’s e-mailed her has reported a response, and no one has found any trace of the story any other source. ---
**Author:** ![Spider\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Spider\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider_Woman)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2000, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/52 "2000-09-23T22:53:32Z")
I e-mailed all the addresses on the list given in the original thread where this was mentioned. Today I received this reply: > [@](#): > > From: “Carol West” \<[CWest1@ci.tucson.az.us](mailto:CWest1@ci.tucson.az.us)\> Save Address - Block Sender > To: \<[l\_frenette\_vannurden@hotmail.com](mailto:l_frenette_vannurden@hotmail.com)\> Save Address > Subject: Re: Terrified, Dying Man > Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 12:59:13 -0700 > Reply Reply All Forward Delete Previous Next Close > > This is a medical issue and not one that the City Council of Tucson has any > jurisdiction over. Carol West > > \>\>\> “Laura Frenette-VanNurden” \<[l\_frenette\_vannurden@hotmail.com](mailto:l_frenette_vannurden@hotmail.com)\> 09/22/00 > 04:55AM \>\>\> The response in no way denied that this actually is happening, just that it was not within their jurisdiction to do anything about it. Hmmmmm. At least you have to admire her dedication, that she is answering city business e-mails on Saturday. But I don’t believe this would actually prevent her from doing something, I think it is just a way to “pass the buck.” If enough adverse publicity is brought to bear on the hospital and its employees, it might bring about some changes. I haven’t yet heard from any of the other people to whom I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Ayesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Ayesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ayesha)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2000, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/53 "2000-09-24T02:03:47Z")
Spider Woman, That is about the same message I got from her. I am looking for email addresses for the hospital now. I alreadt have the snail mail address for Mr. Rasmussen and intend to write him this weekend, simply to let him know that people do care about this situation and are try to do whatever we can to help. I would want to know that if I were in his shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Germ\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Germ\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Germ_Boy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2000, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/54 "2000-09-25T14:50:42Z")
Germboy here with news of … nothing. No fax, no response, no more info. I think, knowing some reporters in my life, that Ms. McClain has moved on and has little if any interest in this story or its outcome. I think contacting the hospital will lead to nothing due to confidentiality issues. Mr. Rasmussen will provide one side of a very complex story and we will not have too much resolution to this one. I can call the reporter again if a majority think it would be worthwhile. What do you all think? What do you want to know? (I assume that the veracity of the story is not in dispute.) The Germ ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2000, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/55 "2000-09-25T15:14:09Z")
Do it! Give them hell, Germinator! ---
**Author:** ![Skribbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Skribbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skribbler)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2000, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/56 "2000-09-27T15:08:53Z")
Call a TV news station, like FOX, give them the particulars and if they think the story has human interest merit, they’ll investigate it thoroughly. ---
**Author:** ![johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnson)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2000, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/57 "2000-09-30T01:55:25Z")
I’m bumping this up just to see if anyone’s heard anything else. If not, I’m chalking this up to “media got one and only one side of the story.” ---
**Author:** ![Ayesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Ayesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ayesha)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2000, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/58 "2000-09-30T23:34:31Z")
Johnson, I am working on getting in touch with his attorneys right now. I could call Mr. Rasmussen himself, but don’t want to bother him. ---
**Author:** ![Germ\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Germ\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Germ_Boy)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2000, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/59 "2000-10-02T16:28:42Z")
Well, still no action. Calls to the reporter (her voicemail)are unanswered. Contacting Rasmussen would provide a bit of clarity but is it right to bug the guy in this much distress?? Germ ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2000, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703/60 "2000-10-02T17:29:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Contacting Rasmussen would provide a bit of clarity but is it right to bug the guy in this much distress?? It wouldn’t be right. Besides, you will still only get one side of the story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrified-sick-man-in-bad-mood-sentenced-to-die/33703.md?page=2)