# Terrorist attack between now and November. Is McCain or Obama hurt (or helped) more? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884 "2008-06-05T15:03:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/21 "2008-06-05T16:46:07Z")
McCain. Right or wrong, he’s perceived by a majority of voters as the “national security” guy. Obama’s theoretical best chance would be to try to sell the idea that another successful attack is proof that the Republicans haven’t been able to protect America. It might actually be a credible line but it wouldn’t work. In the aftermath of a terrorist attack, people would not want to listen to a partisan message. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/22 "2008-06-05T16:57:08Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] How do we know how he reacts when other people shoot at him? [/QUOTE] Uh… he shoots back? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/23 "2008-06-05T16:58:14Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] McCain. Right or wrong, he’s perceived by a majority of voters as the “national security” guy. Obama’s theoretical best chance would be to try to sell the idea that another successful attack is proof that the Republicans haven’t been able to protect America. It might actually be a credible line but it wouldn’t work. In the aftermath of a terrorist attack, people would not want to listen to a partisan message. [/QUOTE] How is “The Democrats won’t protect you.” not a partisan message? The whole, entire meme that the Republicans are better on national security is pure, partisan hokum. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/24 "2008-06-05T16:58:37Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] McCain. Right or wrong, he’s perceived by a majority of voters as the “national security” guy. Obama’s theoretical best chance would be to try to sell the idea that another successful attack is proof that the Republicans haven’t been able to protect America. It might actually be a credible line but it wouldn’t work. In the aftermath of a terrorist attack, people would not want to listen to a partisan message. [/QUOTE] That’s a good point. McCain wouldn’t have to do anything to get more support. If Obama tried to politicize the attack, which he’d have to do to try and turn it to his advantage, he’d be trounced. For him it’s a Catch-22. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/25 "2008-06-05T16:59:26Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Uh… he shoots back? [/QUOTE] What are you referring to here? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/26 "2008-06-05T17:00:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] What are you referring to here? [/QUOTE] He fought in a war. He had enemies shooting at him. He shot back. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/27 "2008-06-05T17:02:02Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Uh… he shoots back? [/QUOTE] When did that happen? he was a pilot, not an infantryman. Also, he was shot down. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/28 "2008-06-05T17:05:02Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] That’s a good point. McCain wouldn’t have to do anything to get more support. If Obama tried to politicize the attack, which he’d have to do to try and turn it to his advantage, he’d be trounced. For him it’s a Catch-22. [/QUOTE] Obama would be much too intelligent to try to exploit or politicize a terrorist attack (too genuinely decent as well). My guess is he would refuse to allow himself to be drawn into a partisan battle about. That’s not his style. Fox News has no such conpunctions, of course, and I don’t beleive for a second that mcCain wouldn’t try to exploit it. He’s already shown himself too willing to do anything, change any position and pander to any audience to get votes. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/29 "2008-06-05T17:07:01Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] He fought in a war. He had enemies shooting at him. He shot back. [/QUOTE] He was a bomber pilot. He wasn’t in any firefights. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/30 "2008-06-05T17:07:44Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] When did that happen? he was a pilot, not an infantryman. Also, he was shot down. [/QUOTE] [Pilots don’t get shot at?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_McCain) > [@](#): > > McCain would be awarded a Navy Commendation Medal for leading his air section through heavy enemy fire during an October 18 raid on the Lac Trai shipyard in Haiphong.[79] On October 25, McCain’s successful attack on the Phuc Yen airfield north of Hanoi against a barrage of anti-aircraft and surface-to-air missile fire would garner him the Bronze Star Medal.[79] Air defenses around Hanoi were now the strongest they would be during the entire war. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/31 "2008-06-05T17:10:36Z")
I’d still like to see a single example of how we can tell how McCain responds emotionally to a crisis. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/32 "2008-06-05T17:11:02Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] How do we know how he reacts when other people shoot at him? [/QUOTE] I vote he surrenders. Yup, John McCain - big, fat quitter. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/33 "2008-06-05T17:12:12Z")
My first reaction is that it will help McCain, but I am not really sure about that. I actually think it would be a wash. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/34 "2008-06-05T17:13:26Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’d still like to see a single example of how we can tell how McCain responds emotionally to a crisis. [/QUOTE] This is silly. We’re not talking about you. We’re talking about the American people. Remember what happened to Dukakis when people saw how he reacted emotionally to a crisis? You don’t score points by being emotionally detached. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/35 "2008-06-05T17:23:25Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] This is silly. We’re not talking about you. We’re talking about the American people. Remember what happened to Dukakis when people saw how he reacted emotionally to a crisis? You don’t score points by being emotionally detached. [/QUOTE] **Shodan** made a statement that “We already know how he [McCain] reacts in a crisis.” I’m asking how we know that and when we’ve ever seen it. I submit that we don’t know how _either_ would react in a crisis, but at least we’ve seen that Obama has the ability to remain cool and detached under stress, while McCain has a propensity to (sometimes weirdly inappropriate or disproportionate) bursts of temper. We can’t really infer anything from McCain’s war experiences except for the virtual certainty that he would have suffered some degree of PTSD (not that I think that’s necessarily crippling or disqualifying, but it would be childish to deny he must have suffered it). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/36 "2008-06-05T17:26:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] **Shodan** made a statement that “We already know how he [McCain] reacts in a crisis.” I’m asking how we know that and when we’ve ever seen it. I submit that we don’t know how _either_ would react in a crisis, but at least we’ve seen that Obama has the ability to remain cool and detached under stress, while McCain has a propensity to (sometimes weirdly inappropriate or disproportionate) bursts of temper. We can’t really infer anything from McCain’s war experiences except for the virtual certainty that he would have suffered some degree of PTSD (not that I think that’s necessarily crippling or disqualifying, but it would be childish to deny he must have suffered it). [/QUOTE] Well, I was just explaining what I thought \*\*Shodan \*\*meant. I never said I agreed with him. I was surprised that it wasn’t obvious and that there was resistance to the idea that he hadn’t been shot at and/or that he hadn’t shot back. Most Americans are going to assume that McCain has more experience in crisis management that Obama does. Whether he does or not, I don’t know and it doesn’t really matter. Perception is reality in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/37 "2008-06-05T18:03:37Z")
Of course it’s what I meant. And I am reasonably certain everyone else knew what I meant, too. This is just an unfortunate feature of much of the debate about Obama - people keep asking for cites on the same things, over and over and over. They are just trying to shut down debate. In some cases it verges on a form of behavior officially forbidden on the SDMB, but hey, if that is the best they can do, I rest content. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/38 "2008-06-05T18:15:51Z")
Except in one case-I don’t think it would change the election outcome. People’s opinions on the appropriate response to terrorist attacks are so galvanized that I think most would not change their choices because of an attack. The exception being that I think attacks directed against the military may help McCain slightly, if only because he is associated with the military more than Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/39 "2008-06-05T18:22:02Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] This is just an unfortunate feature of much of the debate about Obama - people keep asking for cites on the same things, over and over and over. They are just trying to shut down debate. [/QUOTE] Hey, pal- you claimed it, you prove it. The common perception, according to you, is that “we know how McCain performs in a crisis.” Discounting his POW episode, what other evidence do we have for that assumption? I’m not dismissing his POW experience, but I’d like to see more evidence, please. Feel free to post links to past threads, if you must, but please explain exactly how that thread correlates to McCain’s performance in a crisis. Just pointing to other threads and saying, “If you’re not going to read past threads then I’m not going to explain it to you” doesn’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884/40 "2008-06-05T18:22:08Z")
I don’t see how having been a bomber pilot tells us anything at all about how a person will react in a crisis. It’s certainly not something we can say we’ve “seen” from McCain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-attack-between-now-and-november-is-mccain-or-obama-hurt-or-helped-more/451884.md?page=3)