# Terrorist leader calls for jihad against US in order to elect Democrats **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2003, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368 "2003-08-06T17:38:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blackeyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@Blackeyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackeyes)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/21 "2003-08-06T18:32:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\ ***December** , I recently threw a fit elsewhere at people agreeing with Anne Coulter that Democrats and liberals are committing treason. > > This is perhaps the most despicable thing I’ve ever seen. > > In short, to prevent Arab dictators from instituting terrorist attacks on the U.S., you would suppress American freedom to disagree with the person in office? > > Fine – you have just called for an dictatorship in America. > > **Traitor**! > > :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: \*\* Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/22 "2003-08-06T18:39:39Z")
**December** , I patiently await your retraction. This is phenomenally nasty, and while it’s of course constitutionally protected speech, we don’t need to be in denial about its adverse consequences. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/23 "2003-08-06T19:01:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Latro \* > **And to think they banned Collounsbury.** And that we can’t use the T-word, either. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/24 "2003-08-06T19:11:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > **December, I patiently await your retraction.** Let’s see which statements need retracting: [ul][li] Is Nasrallah a terrorist leader? Check.[_]Did he call for a jihad against Americans? Check[_]Was his stated purpose to get the Bush Administration voted out of office? Check.[_]Did he call for terrorist attacks against Americans in order to contribute to Bush not being re-elected? Check.[_]Does this mean replacing Bush with a Democrat? Check. (Although Nasrallah didn’t mention the Democrats, Bush has no Republican opposition, so the only way to vote him out of office would be to elect a Democratic President.) [_]Would it be wrong to call Democratic anti-war comments “treason”? Check.[_]Are Democratic comments protected free speech? Check.Have campaign comments by Dean and others left people in doubt as to their degree of resolve for staying in Iraq? Check.[/ul]Give me a hint, **DanielWithrow**. Which part do you think needs retracting? (Same question to other critics.)[/li] My statements are unfortunately true. If my statements are nasty, it’s because _reality_ is nasty. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/25 "2003-08-06T19:14:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*“Mu” ??? As in “Does Karl Rove have Buddha-essence?” \*\* **december** is contributing to my [cow-nature](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=202760). ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/26 "2003-08-06T19:16:55Z")
I think the Democrats should nominate Graham. Especially now for the sake of irony. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/27 "2003-08-06T19:19:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > The secretary-general of Hezbollah called for attacks against Americans in order to remove the Bush administration **and elect Democrats** who, he says, would withdraw American forcres from Iraq. A lie. > [@](#): > > Continuing terror attacks against Americans could hurt Bush’s chances for re-election. Dean and several other leading Democrats have made statements indicating opposition to Bush’s Iraq policy. Yes, but a huge economic recovery could also hurt Bush’s re-election chances. What strange universe do you live in, in which Presidents become less likely to be re-elected when the nation is attacked? **2. Are anti-war comments by these leading Democrats encouraging the murder of Americans in the middle east?** Evidently the answer is _Yes_, whether one likes it or not. [/quote] Not only a lie, but a despicable lie. > [@](#): > > 1. Should Dean and others apologize to the families of slain servicemen, since **their comments encouraged the attacks against them?** A repulsive lie. Glad to clarify what could use retraction. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/28 "2003-08-06T19:32:36Z")
It should also be noted that not all of the Democrats running opposed the war in Iraq (I think the margin among the 9 candidates was 5-to-4 in favor of it), and again, none would remove the troops as far as I can know. I’m pretty sure none of them have said they would, and I doubt any of them will say anything of the sort. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/29 "2003-08-06T19:38:55Z")
I’d also like to call for a cite on the full speech. Especially this little bit of editorializing: > [@](#): > > Let us adopt the Iraqis to our hearts so that they will be able to unify their choice: opposition in the form of a war of jihad, making sacrifices for the cause [or suicide attacks - Z.B.]. Where exactly did old ZB get his impression? Since he is talking about resistance in Iraq I would assume he’s actually talking about the geurrilla resistance there. If you don’t mind a “hint” from me **december** you should retract #2 &5. They are offensive. I believe you are completely misguided on the other points. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/30 "2003-08-06T19:42:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > And that we can’t use the T-word, either. Indeed so, Mr Ives. And you would do well to note it is also wholly inappropriate to refer to this OP as; Another [sub]leaking[/sub] Sack [sub]of[/sub] Shit (ASS) In truth, the OP is again and very kindly reminding us of the emotional, military and freedom-loving bond that exists between the peoples of the US and Israel, and how their destiny’s are inextricably entwined in the pursuit of peace. I, for one, am also grateful to the OP for reminding me again that the work of those committed to freedom in all parts of the world is far from complete. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/31 "2003-08-06T19:42:11Z")
Wow did I rreally take that long to compose that? Oh well, what **Daniel** said. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/32 "2003-08-06T19:43:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > “and elect Democrats” > A lie. As I said, Nasrallah said getting someone elected instead of Bush could lead to the removal of American forces from Iraq. Who but a Democratic candidate could Nasrallah imagine could defeat Bush for President? > [@](#): > > Yes, but a huge economic recovery could also hurt Bush’s re-election chances. What strange universe do you live in, in which Presidents become less likely to be re-elected when the nation is attacked? It’s not a question of what universe I live in, but what universe Sheik Nasrallah lives in. His statement says that he believes that terrorist attacks on Americans could lead to Bush’s electoral defeat. However, I would add that media coverage of the deaths of Americans in Iraq shows that the country takes these attacks very seriously. IIRC threads on this board have addressed the question of how badly these attacks will hurt the President’s electoral chances. (Maybe Nasrallah got the idea that attacks would hurt Bush’s electability from reading the Straight Dope. ;)) > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > **2. Are anti-war comments by these leading Democrats encouraging the murder of Americans in the middle east?** Evidently the answer is _Yes_, whether one likes it or not. > > Not only a lie, but a despicable lie. A repulsive lie. It’s a deduction, based on what Nasrallah actually said. I think a publicly unified Iraq policy would remove this particular motivation for terrorism. Of course, Hezbollah might pursue anti-Ameican terrorism for other reasons. Incidentally, I thought **Blalron** made a good point: > [@](#): > > But in real life the Democrats aren’t just going to immediately pull out of Iraq and let chaos reign. I agree with her/him. However, I wish the Democratic candidates would make this position more explicit in their public statements. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/33 "2003-08-06T19:59:56Z")
Wrong again, **december** - you made assertions _yourself_ that you are being called up to retract. Nobody cares what the guy you quoted says. You yourself supported that by observing that “reality is nasty” - meaning your subsequent claim that it isn’t what you think but what this other guy thinks that matters is yet another lie. Now take responsibility for your own words. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/34 "2003-08-06T20:06:12Z")
It’s true. If I don’t give a shit about how lunatic conservatives in the United States misjudge foreign policy, why should I care what some lunatic theocrat in Palestine thinks on the subject? When we start trying to second-guess lunatic terrorists, we compromise our own society, our own ethic. We gotta do what’s right or wrong, regardless of the lunatic element: our only response to them should be to the extent that we keep ourselves and others safr from their venom. That applies equally to foreign crazies and the homegrown variety. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/35 "2003-08-06T20:10:15Z")
Being one of your critics, I’ll answer as to which points deserve a retraction or apology. Seeing that you were an admittedly > [@](#): > > a relatively mild anti-war person at Berkeley during the heyday of the Free Speech Movement. [Link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=193810&highlight=berkeley) I’d posit these points to debate (along with what really isn’t my opinion, but hey): **1. Was the National Liberation Front’s strategy reasonable?** Yes, it got the US to leave Vietnam. **2. Were anti-war comments by december encouraging the murder of Americans in South East Asia?** Evidently the answer is _Yes_, whether one likes it or not. **3. In view of this impact, should december have been be more careful of what he said?** I think **december** would have been well-advised to have taken a line saying that whatever his differences were with the war, he was fully committed to the US remaining in Vietnam. **4. If comments by december served to encourage America’s enemies, do these comments constitute treason?** Not at all IMHO. It’s an unfortunate side-effect of free speech. **5. Should december and others apologize to the families of slain servicemen, since their comments encouraged the attacks against them?** Yes. **6. Is it appropriate to note and debate whether anti-war statements during Vietnam served to encourage some terrorists?** Absolutely. These statements are protected free speech, but we needn’t be in denial about their adverse consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/36 "2003-08-06T20:24:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > \*\*lunatic theocrat in Palestine \*\* Lebanon actually. Or as it might otherwise be called, Syria Jr. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/37 "2003-08-06T20:41:50Z")
We really need a new forum for comedy. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/38 "2003-08-06T20:48:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _by december_ > The secretary-general of Hezbollah called for attacks against Americans in order to remove the Bush administration and elect Democrats who, he says, would withdraw American forcres from Iraq. > [@](#): > > _from december’s cite - my bolding_ > “The resistance movement [against the U.S. in Iraq] **may not** be able to remove the U.S. from Iraq within a year, but it will be able to remove Bush, [Defense Secretary Donald] Rumsfeld and [National Security Adviser] Condoleezza Rice, together with their Zionist friends, from the White House,” Nasrallah assured his listeners. Nasrallah’s scenario requires no deep understanding: Suicide attacks and sabotage operations against the American forces in Iraq will cause American public opinion to turn against the president and not re-elect him, thus bringing about the Not only does Mr Nasrallah not say that a democratic victory would lead to US forces leaving Iraq, he explicitly points out that this should not be an expected result. **december** , your postings in this thread are shameful. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/39 "2003-08-06T20:52:59Z")
To further **Fang** ’s nitpick, Hizballa is a Lebanese-based, Iranian-backed Shi’ite organization that has little or nothing to do with the Palestinians (or, for that matter, with the Iraqis). ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368/40 "2003-08-06T20:53:32Z")
Here is the problem with this whole line of thought: One might just as well argue that the Republicans were to blame for September 11th because their partisan attacks over fellatiogate distracted Clinton when he should have been paying attention top Osama Bin Laden. How about this for a thought: Bush is responsible for the recent deaths in Iraq (and by the way, it is not just Americans dying) because _he is the one that signed the order to get these festivities under way_. You may agree with that choice, or not, but to try to lay the blame elsewhere is dishonest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-leader-calls-for-jihad-against-us-in-order-to-elect-democrats/193368.md?page=3)