# Terrorist murders in N.Ireland Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971 "2009-03-10T16:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/101 "2011-04-02T19:40:02Z")
Given that the last event was not followed by further violence for two years, I hope that this is also a one-off, the killers are caught and punished, and the hot heads remain on the sidelines. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/102 "2011-04-02T20:25:21Z")
Yeah, I hope so too. My family are from the Omagh area and I’ve a friend (Catholic) who’s in the PSNI. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/103 "2011-04-02T21:43:04Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > and the hot heads remain on the sidelines. They’re on the sidelines already. I’m still not sure what they want from their murder, other than a diminishing round of applause from their particular part of the community. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/104 "2011-04-03T03:01:35Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > They’re on the sidelines already. I’m still not sure what they want from their murder, other than a diminishing round of applause from their particular part of the community. Shits and giggles I reckon. Bored, marginalised idiots who wanna be important and don’t have the wherewithal to achieve it by legitimate means. They can go to their graves thinking they’re heroes. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/105 "2011-04-03T03:09:01Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Shits and giggles I reckon. Bored, marginalised idiots who wanna be important and don’t have the wherewithal to achieve it by legitimate means. They can go to their graves thinking they’re heroes. ☹ Yup. A world that has Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness sitting down for a cup of tea and a blether is a changed world. Some scrotes don’t seem to realise this ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/106 "2011-04-03T05:03:23Z")
Perhaps the death penalty for terrorists would be set a nice example… ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/107 "2011-04-03T06:12:24Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Perhaps the death penalty for terrorists would be set a nice example… Wow. Do you know _anything_ about the Irish conflict? In particular, the way that people who have died for the republican cause are viewed by those who believe in that cause? ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/108 "2011-04-03T07:25:10Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Given that the last event was not followed by further violence for two years, I hope that this is also a one-off, the killers are caught and punished, and the hot heads remain on the sidelines. The thing is there has been a whole series of attacks and attempted attacks, many of which have actually taken place as planned but for the past two years we’ve been very lucky that nobody else has lost their life but several people have been badly injured. And the worrying thing is that dissident activity is escalating, its still nowhere near the level of violence that occurred during the Troubles and probably never will get that bad as the conditions and support-base don’t really exist for that. But they’re still out there and doing their very best to break things and hurt people and the economic slowdown definitely doesn’t help matters. > **[Timeline of dissident republican activity](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-10866072)** > > Details of significant events involving dissident republican activity in Northern Ireland since March 2009. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/109 "2011-04-03T08:04:07Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Perhaps the death penalty for terrorists would be set a nice example… [How some Northern Irish people reacted to ‘martyrdom’ in the past](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Irish_hunger_strike). I know you’re very young, but your worldview is quite amazingly narrow. You possess the “facts”, which are in fact acquired opinions, and you attempt to squash reality into them. It doesn’t work. Read a lot more; when you’re old enough, travel. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/110 "2011-04-03T08:25:22Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > They’re on the sidelines already. I’m still not sure what they want from their murder, other than a diminishing round of applause from their particular part of the community. > [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Shits and giggles I reckon. Bored, marginalised idiots who wanna be important and don’t have the wherewithal to achieve it by legitimate means. They can go to their graves thinking they’re heroes. ☹ Or they want to re-ignite the fighting. Some Protestants blow up a Catholic, some Catholics shoot some Protestants in retaliation, some Protestants kill some Catholics in retaliation for _that,_ and back comes the old blood feud again. Fortunately the Irish at this point don’t appear to be letting themselves be manipulated by the extremists that way. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/111 "2011-04-03T08:33:46Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > [How some Northern Irish people reacted to ‘martyrdom’ in the past](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Irish_hunger_strike). > > I know you’re very young, but your worldview is quite amazingly narrow. You possess the “facts”, which are in fact acquired opinions, and you attempt to squash reality into them. It doesn’t work. Read a lot more; when you’re old enough, travel. I don’t really understand why hunger strikes work. I mean, if somebody chooses to starve himself, that’s on him, isn’t it? It’s not the fault of his jailer if he’s given food and chooses not to take it. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/112 "2011-04-03T08:51:42Z")
Many hunger strikes are designed to meet immediate demands, and the striker hopes that he’ll live. Many of these hunger strikers were prepared to die, and the goal was partially to get better prison treatment (POW status), but also to embarrass the Thatcher government. She reacted to the striker’s deaths with her characteristic compassion. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/113 "2011-04-03T08:52:04Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t really understand why hunger strikes work. I mean, if somebody chooses to starve himself, that’s on him, isn’t it? It’s not the fault of his jailer if he’s given food and chooses not to take it. Remember the power of [this image](http://theewhiteelephant.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/vietnam-war-monk-self-immolation.jpg)? If someone chooses to set fire to himself, that’s on him, isn’t it? Well, yes, but also no. Martyrdom, perceived or otherwise, evokes powerful emotions. Just ask a Christian. The Hunger Strikers would have eaten again had they been re-granted the “political prisoner” status, and concomitant rights, that Thatcher revoked. Seems quite petty now but I assure you it was a Big Fucking Deal at the time, particularly when Bobby Sands, a convicted Republican terrorist starving himself to death in a British jail, was elected to the British Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/114 "2011-04-03T13:09:24Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > The “Planters” are going nowhere as they are now dust in long forgotten graves. Their ancestors have as much right to be in NI and anyone else and the vast majority of nationalists/republicans see the task now is to convince them that it is to their advantage to be a large minority in a united Ireland than a very small one in the UK. Descendants not ancestors. Grandpa is an ancestor, My [imaginary] kid is a descendant. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/115 "2011-04-03T17:14:04Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t really understand why hunger strikes work. I mean, if somebody chooses to starve himself, that’s on him, isn’t it? It’s not the fault of his jailer if he’s given food and chooses not to take it. The act of using your own body as a weapon and dying a slow horrible death is potentially an incredibly powerful tool.. It’s not a nice death and people know this. It’s also a relatively slow death. Lots of time to ramp up the pressure and gain a lot of traction. The Hunger Strike deaths were also staggered. The nightmarish images and stories just kept coming. Then you’ve got the [funerals](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzc9Q5tjfPg). That link shows not only some of the images of the funeral but also the martyrdom of the dead. In republican circles these men were held up as the ultimate example of heroes. They’re up there with Tone, Pearse, Connolly, Emmet etc. I was 10 when Bobby Sands died. I remember wearing a little black arm band and people on every bridge of the Grand Canal waving black flags at the cars driving by. The Hunger Strikes were incredibly important in Ireland both north and south. The deaths led to anger and a solidifying of opinions. It confirmed to a lot of people that they were on the right side and the British establishment were to be despised. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/116 "2011-04-03T17:28:41Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > The Hunger Strikers would have eaten again had they been re-granted the “political prisoner” status, and concomitant rights, that Thatcher revoked. You mean Callaghan, right? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/117 "2011-04-03T17:35:09Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > You mean Callaghan, right? Willie Whitelaw under Callaghan, yes. Worse than that - I have corrected someone else on that on the boards before, I think. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/118 "2011-04-04T02:55:04Z")
1974 isn’t coming back. The blood money that flowed from the US for decades has dried up, and given the ongoing War on Terror, it’s not going to flow again any time soon. You need money to pay for wars. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/119 "2011-04-04T06:05:27Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > In republican circles these men were held up as the ultimate example of heroes. Why, though? They were murderers who committed suicide. Why hold these men up as anything more than the murdering thugs they were? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971/120 "2011-04-04T08:04:13Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > 1974 isn’t coming back. The blood money that flowed from the US for decades has dried up, and given the ongoing War on Terror, it’s not going to flow again any time soon. > > You need money to pay for wars. There are alternate sources of funding. The reason 1974 isn’t coming back is that the societal conditions aren’t there for it. Without the level of discrimination and oppression that previously existed against one particular community, there is significantly less support or sympathy from that community for these types of acts. That sympathy was essential to the IRA’s campaign and it simply doesn’t exist anymore to anywhere near the same degree. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Or they want to re-ignite the fighting. Some Protestants blow up a Catholic, some Catholics shoot some Protestants in retaliation, some Protestants kill some Catholics in retaliation for _that,_ and back comes the old blood feud again. FWIW, the victim in this case was Catholic. And **Captain Amazing** , the hunger strike as a tool of protest against perceived injustice goes back thousands of years in Irish history. Trying to rationalise it without an understanding of the history is an exercise in futility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorist-murders-in-n-ireland-why/488971.md?page=7)