# Terrorists Whose Ideals Were Right **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 22, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029 "2010-12-22T02:08:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/21 "2010-12-22T10:22:16Z")
You know, the fact this thread hasn’t become sequential with … [An OP writing challenge! Write an OP that would guarantee a trainwreck.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=589391) … is a compliment to all contributors … I really didn’t think you’d last this long. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/22 "2010-12-22T14:26:35Z")
I strongly disapprove of the criminal tactics of the Symbionese Liberation Army, but I cannot deny the right to self-determination of the oppressed people of Symbia! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/23 "2010-12-22T15:30:25Z")
> [@Kilmore](#): > > Boston Tea Party Um… what? If no shots are fired and nothing is blown up, it’s not terrorism. The BTS was more like civil disobedience, if anything. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/24 "2010-12-22T15:32:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Um… what? If no shots are fired and nothing is blown up, it’s not terrorism. The BTS was more like civil disobedience, if anything. Or vandalism maybe. I’m not seeing how it inspires terror. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/25 "2010-12-22T15:35:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Um… what? If no shots are fired and nothing is blown up, it’s not terrorism. The BTS was more like civil disobedience, if anything. And the ideals weren’t necessarily that great, either. I thought that the modern Tea Party didn’t deserve the name compared to the historical version until I remembered that both claimed to hold ideals that are worthwhile on the face of it, but when you examine them further they are organized and paid for by moneyed interests. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/26 "2010-12-22T15:37:41Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I haven’t finished reading the thread but this post provoked me to respond by asking just who it is that determined that a fetus is a human being? :mad: What, a **blindfolded** taste-test ain’t good enough for you?! Ya think **you** could tell a fetus from a newborn?! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/27 "2010-12-22T15:47:25Z")
Pol Pot meant well. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/28 "2010-12-22T15:50:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Or vandalism maybe. I’m not seeing how it inspires terror. Except in tea-lovers. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/29 "2010-12-22T15:55:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Which terrorists do you think while you may not agree with their methods who you’re sympathetic or think their ideals were right? This by no means means an endorsement of their actions or even most of their ideology. > > John Brown-For obvious reasons though his plans were highly unrealistic > Pro-life terrorists-Again highly realistic and what they’re doing is quite immoral and hypocritical but at the same time when a million fetuses are murdered every year > Organisation armee secree (OAS)-With the French government’s essential abandonment of the Muslim loyalists in Algeria and the massacres of both the harkis and the pieds-noirs, they were in many cases simply forced to block Algerian independence. I’ll agree that John Brown was a terrorist whose ideals were right. I see no evidence to support the contention that first-trimester fetuses are persons; therefore it is impossible to murder them. I’m not a big fan of European imperialism. Infer my opinion of your third item from that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/30 "2010-12-22T15:58:35Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Agree. Applying the word “terrorist” implies something that may not be historically accurate. > > [Search 'terrorist' on etymonline](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terrorist&searchmode=none) > > So are you going to use “terror” and “terrorist” in the 1947 modern sense (meaning what’s really in the news today that is practically everyone’s mindset) and attempt to apply it in a revisionist, dishonest manner back to a time (say John Brown) where the word isn’t historically applicable? Is this how we distringuish terrorist from freedom fighter? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/31 "2010-12-22T15:59:13Z")
Heck, I would say that the Palestinians have some legitimate beefs. If they used non-violent civil disobedience I would probably be largely in favor of them. Their current tactics however are inexcusable. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/32 "2010-12-22T16:07:58Z")
^ While Israel’s are just dandy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/33 "2010-12-22T16:10:38Z")
Regardless of whether or not you consider Israeli tactics legitimate, I’m not sure they really qualify as _terrorism_. I can’t imagine any circumstances in which a state’s actions _within its own borders_ would be defined as terrorism, no matter how unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/34 "2010-12-22T16:55:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I can’t imagine any circumstances in which a state’s actions _within its own borders_ would be defined as terrorism, no matter how unpleasant. That makes no sense to me. Isn’t one of the initial uses of _terrorism_ with respect to the French Revolution? The Jacobins were acting within their own borders in a way that terrorized their populations. The Khmer Rouge is perhaps a similar example of what I would considered state-sponsored internal terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/35 "2010-12-22T16:56:36Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > ^ > While Israel’s are just dandy. I don’t disagree with you. Isreal’s tactics are among the reasons I would probably support the Palestinians if they stopped their terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/36 "2010-12-22T17:36:56Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > That makes no sense to me. Isn’t one of the initial uses of _terrorism_ with respect to the French Revolution? The Jacobins were acting within their own borders in a way that terrorized their populations. > > The Khmer Rouge is perhaps a similar example of what I would considered state-sponsored internal terrorism. The Reign of Terror in France took place against a backdrop of civil war - or at any rate, internal strife - so there was arguably no sovereign government at the time. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/37 "2010-12-22T20:03:03Z")
To answer the op, I’m not going to say anything about ideals. The problem with ‘their ideals are right…’ is that everyone has different ideals. However, while still not agreeing with the tactics, I do tend to look more kindly towards some ‘terrorists’ than others. On one hand you have ‘terrorists’ who bomb shopping malls, fly planes into building, blow up London trains, etc. Mass rioting, like the battle for Seattle or the Rodney King LA riots that destroyed tons of property could fall into this, although obviously on a different scale since they weren’t actively murdering people. Wholesale indiscriminate violence against people who have little to do with whatever issue the terrorist are fighting deserves no respect at all. On the other, there are ‘terrorists’ who directly target their actions at the people responsible for whatever evil they think they’re fighting. For example, the people who killed abortion doctors focused directly on those they viewed as murders. Iraqi/Afghanistan rebels who do attacks on the US military directly targeting what they view as invaders. Groups like ELF that attack animal research facilities directly target those they think are evilly harming animals. I don’t agree with resorting to violent vigilantism, but I don’t view those who limit their violence to specific goals as harshly as those killing random people. Before there’s even a chance I could be sympathetic to their goals, they’d have to be one of those who’s tactics didn’t encourage attacking people who have nothing to do with their cause. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/38 "2010-12-22T23:04:05Z")
I state with full explicitness that I do not support any of the terroistics actions or tactics by the groups or persons mentioned in the OP. I would not approve of them committing such actions and were I acquainted or in communication with them would try to dissuade them. ---
**Author:** ![randy054](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@randy054](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randy054)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/39 "2010-12-23T01:17:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m much more sympathetic to people than to ideals. **If propagating or defending your ideals involves maiming and killing innocent people, as a general rule you’ve lost me.** And I agree the OP is apparently lumping all types of rebellion into terrorism, which makes a mess of this discussion. > Would you mind completing this thought? Would that apply to heads of state and their actions as well? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029/40 "2010-12-23T01:20:45Z")
> [@randy054](#): > > Would that apply to heads of state and their actions as well? Yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/terrorists-whose-ideals-were-right/565029.md?page=3)