# Tesla Cybertruck **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 23, 2019, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866 "2019-11-23T10:32:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/861 "2024-03-21T01:57:02Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I gotta comment on the great typo though: So you put the spftware in there to make sure the cars come out looking spiffy? Or at least spiffty? Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/862 "2024-03-21T02:00:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Tesla’s fit and finish isn’t that great. Or at least it wasn’t as of the Model 3 I looked at a few years ago. Uneven panel gaps everywhere, visible paint lines, etc. I was not impressed, and wrote about it here. I have to say fit on our new Y is pretty great. Better than our 2012 Subaru. I still stand by my post a couple up about Loctite. Can someone send Elon info on that product to help prevent fasteners from backing out after a couple months? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/863 "2024-03-21T05:05:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Drop both of them out of plane and see which one lands first. Hehehe, no. I can’t afford to. Plus, they’re cars. They’ll go all filppy-floppy. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/864 "2024-03-21T17:15:39Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I always enjoyed seeing the Truly Nolen cars. Often VWs, but many other compact cars were/ are used. Not knowing Truly Nolen, I thought that was the designer. Googling brought me to a pest control company. _confused_ - A regoogling of Truly Nolen cars - Aaah, I know _those_ but never realized they were a national chain before. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > The base of the ears is spring loaded and at highway speed they partly lay back against the roof. Like a threatening cat, which is a nice juxtaposition for a mouse. > > Anyhow, at some speeds you’d sometimes see the car zipping down the highway with the ears flapping 180 degrees out of phase with each other. Looked really silly. Aerodynamics can be weird. [Special shape](https://balloonfiesta.com/Special-Shape-Rodeo) hot air balloons can be a regular round balloon with appendages (a head with eyes, ears, nose, &/or tail, etc.) or fully special shapes. I’ve worked with the rabbit; you can always tell what he’s doing by the position of the ears; if they’re straight up, he’s descending & if they’re both flat, he’s ascending. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/865 "2024-03-21T17:32:09Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Search for images of any modern supersport (Yamaha R1, Suzuki GSX-R1000, etc) and you’ll notice a similar amount of clearance/stance. Those bikes aren’t being taken off any sweet jumps either 🙂 > > I’ve never sat on a Multistrada, but I would guess it is a firmer rear suspension that doesn’t squat down easily like on a dirt bike/dual sport (my Suzuki DR650 has a lot of clearance, but when I sit on it it squats down quite a bit as it is a soft suspension). The Multistrada is made for on- and off-road use. That’s the ‘multi’ part. Compared to a sport bike, it has a lot of both front and rear suspension travel and does sag like a DP bike when you load up. Later Multis, like the one I used to own, have semi-active suspensions and ride height control that can vary the configuration to sport-lite to plush off-road\* machine. \*for certain values of ‘off-road’. Not many people are going to thrash a $25k bike through the rocks and ruts. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/866 "2024-03-21T18:17:48Z")
I have a sport “adventure” bike, Buell Uly, and it has clearance but that suspension is nothing like my Suzuki DR650 and would get absolutely destroyed doing things I do with the DR (well, destroyed when I wrecked in spectacular fashion). I assumed (bad on me) that the Ducati version was similar to my Buell but it sounds like it has a more capable suspension. I’ve taken my Buell on gravel Forest Svc roads, but that’s as far as I’m taking it. My take on supersports is still true though. They have a lot of clearance on the rear end and you aren’t taking those off any sweet jumps. Or down many gravel roads if you don’t have to. ![](https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZXRhZmZybXpwd2huOWoyZ3VuN2pqMTNtOTJ2aDNtanBjYWh5cm9vbSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/m0XFFWsPg0Hba/giphy.gif) ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/867 "2024-03-26T13:22:27Z")
Cybertruck teardown videos are hitting the airwaves and they confirm what we already knew a year ago – the Cybertruck does not, in fact, use an exo skeleton and the non-structural hard-to-bend stainless steel body panels are nothing more than an expensive aesthetic party trick. Much of the panel fit issues from pre-production models have been solved; fit and finish seems to be on part with other Tesla models (that is, pretty bad as far as these things go but also overblown, as modern fit and finish expectations are very high already). Kudos to the engineers who managed to pull off the execution of an absolutely pointless design decision. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/868 "2024-03-26T14:14:28Z")
A plus to the vehicle being a more conventional structural style (if not shape) is that collision repairs ought to be cheaper than they would have been for an exoskeleton (properly “monocoque”) structural design. Not that they will be absolutely cheap, just cheaper. Small production runs, limited aftermarket and used parts supply, and limited 3rd party repair industry expertise with the type all ensure any repairs will be expen$ive. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/869 "2024-03-26T17:04:22Z")
hey, but you did save on gas, before that $42,000 fender-bender, right? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/870 "2024-03-26T19:23:17Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Has Tesla never heard of a product called Loctite? And I say this as an owner of a Tesla. I was a former owner of a Harley and a current owner of a Buell and it doesn’t matter if they torqued everything correctly, that shit is backing out. Suzuki has. Never a loose nothing on my DR. You said you got one, too. You know. Went through hell to remove the unwanted street stuff to shave off some weight. Best built bike I’ve ever owned! They used Orange. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/871 "2024-03-26T19:35:51Z")
Yes, I love my DR650! I’ve had it 15 years (it’s a 2006). I also removed some extraneous stuff like the “heat guard” on the exhaust (I burned myself enough when I was young to learn to respect the pipe!) as well as lowered the gearing a bit (put a 14 tooth on the front). I need to replace the front fork seals to get it ready for the upcoming riding season. I keep thinking I might want to move to a DRZ400 for a bit more ground clearance, more power and lighter weight, but my 650 has been so freaking rock solid. They just go. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/872 "2024-03-26T19:52:44Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > the non-structural hard-to-bend stainless steel body panels are nothing more than an expensive aesthetic party trick Can you provide an actual cite here? We’ve known since the release that it’s by no means a full exoskeleton. However, the designers did make a few specific claims, like that the door panels allowed a significant reduction in interior structure, or that the bed wing panels increased stiffness by ~30%. It’s possible to disprove this, say by showing that everything is clipped together with weak plastic fasteners. But I’d be surprised if that’s what they found, except in isolated cases like the hood. And of course, that’s all aside from the fact that the panels are more durable against low-level impacts like rocks or shopping carts. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/873 "2024-03-26T20:44:16Z")
No one said Cybertruck was a fully monocoque design. They said it was a partial monocoque with stamped framing enhanced by the steel body panels. As Dr. Strangelove says, there were some specific claims made, with numbers. It shows up in the specs as well. A Cybertruck is about 400-500 lbs lighter than the Rivian, despite the Rivian being a much smaller vehicle. The Cybertruck is as stiff as a high end sports car, and can carry over 1,000 more payload than the Rivian or F-150. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/874 "2024-03-26T21:37:21Z")
Most of the text-based cites I’m going to be able to offer are [almost a year old](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-went-from-exoskeleton-marvel-to-unibody-honda-ridgeline-competitor-214263.html), as nobody seems to be digging into this particular detail in the current news cycle. The [teardown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khPMITqp91I&ab_channel=AutolineNetwork) [videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb-uVS9Fz90&ab_channel=MunroLive) are new, but a lot of this [was covered in this video from December.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBJW8jUHcmk&ab_channel=MunroLive). That last video is not a consumer car but they talk about the “exoskeleton,” and it’s clear that the engineers are talking about the gigacastings because they know that the whole exoskeleton thing is marketing bullshit. A direct quote from that video while looking at the bed castings without the stainless steel body panels is “all the torsional rigidity comes from this.” Pretty convincing if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/875 "2024-03-26T21:44:01Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > No one said Cybertruck was a fully monocoque design. They said it was a partial monocoque with stamped framing enhanced by the steel body panels. As Dr. Strangelove says, there were some specific claims made, with numbers. The claim was that the decision to use extra thick stainless steel body panels was driven by _engineering_. That claim is debunked; the gigacastings (which are indeed impressive, don’t get me wrong) are doing all of the work, and the stainless steel body panels are cosmetic. Outside of Tesla marketing materials, this is what the facts are pointing to. Can I say that a Cybertruck with all of the body panels removed wouldn’t lose _any_ structural rigidity? No. But I can’t say the same thing about a Honda Civic either. After all, the same 10mm bolts holding those Cybertruck fenders are are holding on the Civic fenders as well. Maybe they’re doing the lord’s work. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It shows up in the specs as well. A Cybertruck is about 400-500 lbs lighter than the Rivian, despite the Rivian being a much smaller vehicle. The Cybertruck is as stiff as a high end sports car, and can carry over 1,000 more payload than the Rivian or F-150. Apples to oranges; probably 300lbs of that is higher battery capacity and who knows where else there are differences. A Mazda CX-5 is lighter than a BMW 3 series despite being a bigger car. eta: And structural rigidity isn’t really the limfac when talking payload. Most work trucks get a higher payload from a transmission cooler. Suspension and tires are also a factor in payload rating. Vehicles in Europe usually have a higher payload than the same vehicle sold in North America because speed limits are lower and typical driving distances are shorter (I think that’s why, at least. It’s clear that payload is determined with the involvements of lawyers and actuaries and not just engineers, is my point). But this isn’t an area I’m an expert in, just an observation. Torsional rigidity numbers are essentially meaningless for comparison purposes. Trucks flex by design, manufacturers measure rigidity differently, all of the numbers are self-reported, and sports cars optimize for lightness so torsional rigidity is not the only concern. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/876 "2024-03-26T21:50:08Z")
I don’t care what people were speculating about last year. We already know that the gigacastings are doing the heavy lifting here. But you’re claiming that the panels do nothing (i.e., “cosmetic” or “aesthetic”). I saw the Autoline video already and they don’t say anything about the structure that we don’t already know. If they can perform some actual testing or demonstrate that the panels can’t possibly contribute to the structure, then I’ll be more interested (I was hoping they had a new video that I hadn’t seen yet). There is obviously a wide middle ground between “full-blown exoskeleton” and “the panels are just cosmetic”. The evidence suggests that they are in fact somewhere in the middle. > [@steronz](#): > > Trucks flex by design Not this one. Ladder-frame trucks flex by design because they’d tear themselves apart if they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/877 "2024-03-26T21:53:24Z")
Sure, but like I said in the post above, I can’t prove that the body panels on a Civic aren’t providing _some_ structure. Can you? eta: What’s clear from the teardown videos is that the body panels are attached like any other body panels and don’t appear to do anything special. That, plus the engineering discussions, makes me pretty confident in my opinion that the panels are just normal cosmetic body panels, or at least as cosmetic as any other car, and there’s no reason for them to be extra thick. If you want me to amend my claim to include a sufficient number of weasel words, like they provide “some” structure in between “purely cosmetic” and “essential to the operation of the vehicle,” I’ll do so. But based on the evidence in from of me, they’re just as close to the “purely cosmetic” end of the spectrum as any other bolted on panels. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/878 "2024-03-26T22:00:07Z")
It’s minimal. I’ll have to dig up the video, but either Franz or Lars (Tesla lead designers) brings this up specifically, and mention that some conventional car panels have a tiny bit of structural loading (I think the rear quarter panels were mentioned). But it’s not much. Where’s your mental crossover? If the SS panels supported 30% of the load on the CT, while conventional panels provided up to 10%, does that mean they’re just “cosmetic”? And again, this still ignores the general level of durability. I can dent parts of most cars with my thumb. Not so with the CT. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/879 "2024-03-26T22:07:21Z")
I don’t know where my mental crossover is, but if I thought that any of these panels provided 30% or 10% it’d be a question worth pondering. However, I think we’re more like 0.01% to 1% so it’s irrelevant. Unless you have some numbers suggesting otherwise. Tesla made some very bold claims about the exoskeleton, heavily touting it and even filing a patent for it. The fact that their engineers are continuing to even use the word isn’t really evidence of anything, as they’re probably carefully trained by PR/marketing people to use the right words without saying anything that could legally get them in hot water. In the one video, it seems that maybe they found a way to convince themselves that certain parts of the vehicle other than the SS skin were included in the “exoskeleton” so they didn’t have to just outright lie. I dunno. (I really don’t care about the durability of the stainless steel panels. They’re going to have other problems as well, e.g. they’re harder to repair, fewer shops can do so, they may transfer impact energy to more costly components, the fact that their harder to produce will make replacements more expensive and harder to come by should they actually get damaged, and certain types of impacts will mar the finish that could otherwise be buffed out. But I’ve said on these boards, I’ve never wanted my cars to have stronger body panels. It’s a feature I don’t think most people asked for. I’d rather it weigh 50 lbs less because in cars, weight is the enemy of everything good.) ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866/880 "2024-03-26T22:10:04Z")
In any case, Tesla has succeeded beyond anyone’s wildest expectations _despite_ the constant bullshit claims. At this point anyone who’s a Tesla fan has got to have a good sense of humor about all of the marketing nonsense and the drivel spewing out of Elon’s mouth. I hear they won’t even need steering wheels by 2017. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-cybertruck/843866.md?page=45)