# Tesla Model 3 anticipation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 31, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478 "2017-07-31T04:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/702 "2018-02-11T00:33:10Z")
All this stuff is about the Gigafactory, which produces both cells and assembled packs. The cell production is fine–it’s assembling them into packs that is the difficulty. And pack production is the current limiting factor in Model 3 production. They are not currently limited by anything at Fremont, but will be somewhat past the 2500/wk level, where they start running into internal transport problems. They’re working on that, too, which will be necessary to get to 5k/wk. It may never show up as a constraint if the German line takes a while to get to full speed, but if it works out of the box then they’ll hit this as a limit. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/703 "2018-02-11T00:49:07Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > yeah, fuck, they’ve missed every estimate so far, but _this one_ they’ll make. Because you say so. To be fair, my Taurus that was supposed to be _delivered_ in Dec to Jan was finally _built_ on February 8th. Not a Tesla-style delay, but still has me a bit peeved. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/704 "2018-02-11T01:10:05Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > To be fair, my Taurus that was supposed to be _delivered_ in Dec to Jan was finally _built_ on February 8th. Not a Tesla-style delay, but still has me a bit peeved. To be fairer you could go out to a lot and buy a Taurus already made. You ordered one to specifications. Ford is not involved in production problems with the car. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/705 "2018-02-11T01:11:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m confused. from your cite the German assembly line is destined for the gigafactory which only builds batteries. if battery production is the bottleneck, then there you go. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2018, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/706 "2018-02-11T06:54:45Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > if battery production is the bottleneck, then there you go. yes but they’re saying they can make 2,500 without the replacement equipment. And they’re not. So… And is this just for the battery pack for the model 3 or does it include the powerwall battery pack too? They’re different batteries. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/707 "2018-02-12T00:54:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > To be fairer you could go out to a lot and buy a Taurus already made. You ordered one to specifications. Ford is not involved in production problems with the car. I won’t get into it, but they’re all ordered to specification for those in my circumstances. No choice in the matter. I actually, literally mean no choice in the matter. Not a want-vs-need thing, either. Quite plainly and simply, built to order is the only choice. And to boot, I can’t even build every option. No performance package for me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/708 "2018-02-12T01:48:21Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I won’t get into it, but they’re all ordered to specification for those in my circumstances. No choice in the matter. I actually, literally mean no choice in the matter. Not a want-vs-need thing, either. Quite plainly and simply, built to order is the only choice. And to boot, I can’t even build every option. No performance package for me. OK, a bit of a hijack but I’d like to hear about it if you’re willing. Don’t want to pry. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/709 "2018-02-12T02:45:19Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > To be fair, my Taurus that was supposed to be _delivered_ in Dec to Jan was finally _built_ on February 8th. Not a Tesla-style delay, but still has me a bit peeved. yeah, but that’s most likely a delay in your order being entered. you’re not just Joe Schmoe putting in a retail custom order. my previous manager ran into the same thing when he selected a Fusion hybrid; it kept getting shuffled back in favor of retail orders. if _I_ was to put in a retail order for your car, I’m pretty sure it would be the standard 6-8 weeks. though I’d wonder why there’d be _any_ kind of delay on a Taurus. Who the hell is buying those anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/710 "2018-02-13T03:31:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > OK, a bit of a hijack but I’d like to hear about it if you’re willing. Don’t want to pry. It’s a company benefit, kind of. I have to pay, but it includes maintenance and insurance. If you choose the right car, it comes in below market. If you choose the wrong car, it comes in about the same as market. I actually love the Taurus, but the market hates the Taurus, so I get it below market. The catch is, the company builds these for us on demand, because they don’t come through dealerships, and retains title. > [@jz78817](#): > > my previous manager ran into the same thing when he selected a Fusion hybrid; it kept getting shuffled back in favor of retail orders. … > though I’d wonder why there’d be _any_ kind of delay on a Taurus. Who the hell is buying those anymore? My Fusion Energi arrived without delay (I miss that car!), but probably the Hybrid was more popular. I have no idea who’s ordering the Taurus, and given I’m in manufacturing, I happen to know that there are no production problems, and the 2018 launch has no issues (there’s no MCA in body, so not really a “launch”). Or, if there are issues, no one cares about them because it’s not the Explorer, which is all anyone cares about. I’m hoping I love this car enough to buy it (and that the B price isn’t outrageous). Transitioning back from China, it’s been kind of nice to have a car available, but long term, I’m not the type of guy that loves paying for something forever (a lot of other managers and tech. specialists fall into that trap). House is in order, job is in order, so would like to have a car in order, too. I miss the B car lot. Not sure if that was before your time or not. If we still had it, I’d not waste my time trying to find my “forever car.” ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/711 "2018-02-13T12:21:55Z")
The only thing I can think of is CAP is running slow due to retooling. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/712 "2018-02-16T18:45:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > [Here](https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/03/munro-compares-tesla-model-3-build-quality-kia-90s/) is a brief video review of a Model 3 conducted by a company that tears apart cars. The guy being interviewed is totally baffled at various points on a few things, such as how occupants can be expected to get out of the car in a major crash and the fit and finish issues that have been commented on for some time. As for panel gaps, the reviewer said at different points that he hasn’t seen issues like this since the 1970s, or that it reminds him of Kia from the 1990s. > > My impression is that this guy isn’t some rabid Tesla hater, but more like, “Wait… this is supposed to be a luxury car??” Some further behind-the-wheel impressions from the same guy (Munro) [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcA8_k33I0c&t=294s), which seem to be almost a polar opposite from his earlier cabin and exterior fit & finish criticisms: [ul] [li]Loved the handling and acceleration, good braking impressions.[/li][li]Seems particularly impressed with the quality of some of the drive platform components (multi-link suspension, transmission).[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/713 "2018-02-17T00:36:34Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > Some further behind-the-wheel impressions from the same guy (Munro) [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcA8_k33I0c&t=294s), which seem to be almost a polar opposite from his earlier cabin and exterior fit & finish criticisms: > > [ul] > [li]Loved the handling and acceleration, good braking impressions.[/li][li]Seems particularly impressed with the quality of some of the drive platform components (multi-link suspension, transmission).[/li][/ul] Ok? and is it somehow not possible to think some aspects of the car are bad and others are good? cripes. I can’t stand this notion we have in our society that we must all take an “all or nothing” approach to everything. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/714 "2018-02-17T01:57:56Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Ok? and is it somehow not possible to think some aspects of the car are bad and others are good? > > cripes. I can’t stand this notion we have in our society that we must all take an “all or nothing” approach to everything. No kidding. I went to a Michelin star restaurant a little while back, and I didn’t like one of the dishes. In this thread, I’d be viewed as hating the restaurant and calling it a failure. Then I liked the other dishes. In this thread, I’d be declared as seeing the light as coming around to the best restaurant ever. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/715 "2018-02-17T06:41:10Z")
Some pretty neat “teardown” videos of the Model 3: [Tesla Model 3 Stripped - Part 2 - The Dark Side - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGzwnPgow8U) It’s very pretty on the inside. I don’t know enough to evaluate the quality, but it doesn’t look janky. The fiber-reinforced plastic suspension component is interesting, but clearly the forces on that component are pretty low due to the overall linkage. Kinda funny (though not surprising) that there’s just a giant internal cavity where the second motor would go. Almost makes me think it could be retrofitted in. Battery connections and mounting brackets are right there. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/716 "2018-02-17T07:22:02Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Kinda funny (though not surprising) that there’s just a giant internal cavity where the second motor would go. Almost makes me think it could be retrofitted in. Battery connections and mounting brackets are right there. The actual battery connections are to the other side. They shows a tunnel - the wires in that tunnel would be the 3 phase variable frequency AC that actually drives the motor, and that would have to be generated by a second motor driver in the back under the rear seat. There is no doubt a cavity for it. I think you’re sort of right. You could buy a motor that would work off the shelf. You could buy an EV motor driver that even has a water block, and use the existing cooling system. Could probably figure out the CAN code or whatever for an acceleration command, it’s not encrypted, that would be straightforward. Hard part would be the mechanicals. The 3 doesn’t ship with the transmission you’d need. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/717 "2018-02-17T07:36:16Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > They shows a tunnel - the wires in that tunnel would be the 3 phase variable frequency AC that actually drives the motor, and that would have to be generated by a second motor driver in the back under the rear seat. The DC-\>AC conversion happens in the (integrated) motor unit–it’s all one assembly. So it just needs the DC input. You may be right that holes shown are just a tunnel, but there could be contactors in there; I can’t tell. I wasn’t thinking about a third-party solution; just an official front drive unit, either bought or pulled from a wreck. It would probably need some kind of firmware update to enable the new motor, though maybe not–could be that in the interest of simplicity, they kept everything “plug and play” and it just uses a new acceleration/regen/stability control/etc. program if it detects the second motor. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/718 "2018-02-17T12:45:33Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Some pretty neat “teardown” videos of the Model 3: > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGzwnPgow8U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGzwnPgow8U) > > It’s very pretty on the inside. _shrug_ it looks like pretty much every other car on the market, save for the lack of ICE. the design and assembly doesn’t look like anything special. though I’m wondering about the body sealer applied after dip/paint (the pink goo on seams under the frunk); typically sealer is applied first to protect steel in seams where the anti-corrosion dip can’t reach. > [@](#): > > I don’t know enough to evaluate the quality, but it doesn’t look janky. The fiber-reinforced plastic suspension component is interesting, but clearly the forces on that component are pretty low due to the overall linkage. that is the upper control arm (UCA.) the UCA in this setup is not bearing any of the car’s weight; the weight is carried by the coil-over spring/shock which connects the lower control arm (LCA) to the body. the UCA is only there to locate the top of the hub/knuckle. most of the force it will carry is lateral (tension or compression,) no bending stresses. Ford was doing composite stabilizer bar links in the '80s. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/719 "2018-02-17T20:52:43Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > _shrug_ it looks like pretty much every other car on the market, save for the lack of ICE. Well, it helps that it’s super-clean, which I don’t get to see often. And simple enough that you can see what’s going on. But the big thing is the drive unit. It’s just a really nice looking cast aluminum piece with all the important stuff on the inside. Just a few cables going in and a mechanical shaft going out. Older (and cleaned up) ICE engines also look good, again due to their simplicity. But modern ones are just a blob of wires and tubes and you’d never know how they look underneath. The Tesla unit reminds me a lot of the giant blowers my dad had on his dragsters. > [@jz78817](#): > > most of the force it will carry is lateral (tension or compression,) no bending stresses. Ford was doing composite stabilizer bar links in the '80s. Yeah, and even those lateral forces are only a small fraction of those on the wheel due to the lever arm. Why aren’t FRP or other composites used more in suspensions? Corvette I see has a FRP leaf spring. But given that unsprung weight is a big deal and it can obviously be used for the less-stressed components, I’d think it would be more common. Is it more expensive than stamped steel? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/720 "2018-02-17T22:37:37Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > But the big thing is the drive unit. It’s just a really nice looking cast aluminum piece with all the important stuff on the inside. it’s a high-pressure die casting, I can tell by the surface finish. you could say the same thing about pretty much any automatic transmission being made. it’s how most aluminum engine blocks and transmission cases are made these days since it reduces the occurrence of porosity and inclusions. sand casting aluminum lets the surfaces of the molten metal oxidize as it flows into the mold cavity, bringing in potential leak sources and weakened areas. > [@](#): > > Why aren’t FRP or other composites used more in suspensions? Corvette I see has a FRP leaf spring. But given that unsprung weight is a big deal and it can obviously be used for the less-stressed components, I’d think it would be more common. Is it more expensive than stamped steel? a lot of vehicles have MacPherson struts, which have no upper control arm. the lower control arm gets pounded like hell in normal usage and a plastic one would not be nearly robust enough. stabilizer bars undergo too much torsion, though as I said composites can be used for end links since those only really ever experience straight tension/compression. there are [CFRP sub-frames](http://www.motortrend.com/news/magna-ford-testing-carbon-fiber-subframe-future-cars/) being developed, but they’re going to be limited to applications where the weight save is the most important thing. otherwise the cost hit vs. steel will be prohibitive. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/721 "2018-02-19T01:40:47Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > The only thing I can think of is CAP is running slow due to retooling. It’s more likely that they just don’t give a crap about Taurus. I’m always facing issues with Explorer, making me think that Taurus is perfect! 😃 Retooling isn’t happening yet (that’s my part of the business). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478.md?page=37)