# Tesla Model 3 anticipation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 31, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478 "2017-07-31T04:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 57
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1122 "2018-05-08T21:37:04Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > 1. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of power being generated by the relative motion of conductors and fluxes, it’s produced by the modial interaction of magneto-reluctance and capacitive diractance. The original machine had a base plate of prefabulated amulite, surmounted by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in a direct line with the panametric fan. Well that’s dumb. I’m pretty sure Elon promised turns signals operated by gyro-controlled antigravic marzel-vanes. I’m canceling my order. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1123 "2018-05-08T23:10:09Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > 1. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of power being generated by the relative motion of conductors and fluxes, it’s produced by the modial interaction of magneto-reluctance and capacitive diractance. The original machine had a base plate of prefabulated amulite, surmounted by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in a direct line with the panametric fan. So, uh, they take AA batteries? ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1124 "2018-05-09T22:26:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So, uh, they take AA batteries? That’s the Mercedes. Here is the [promo video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJIWYYL16PM)… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1125 "2018-05-09T23:54:44Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So, uh, they take AA batteries? According to my calculations, a Model 3 can travel 55 feet on one AA battery. How long is your commute? BTW–I was looking at some early posts in this thread and see that you mentioned limited trunk space as a concern. If you want any measurements done, let me know. You also mentioned cupholders. Every seat has a normal cupholder available (front seats have the center console and rear seats have a fold-down armrest). Also, every seat has a side pocket with a nice slot for a water bottle–it’s shaped to hold one, and also tilts forward so that a bottle won’t slide around on acceleration/braking. There’s also a textured rubbery mat on the bottom so other stuff (tablet, whatever) is less likely to slide around. ETA: Looks like it was **Bone** that mentioned cupholders. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1126 "2018-05-09T23:59:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So, uh, they take AA batteries? More or less, yes. > **[This Teardown Of A Tesla Model S Battery Pack Is Pretty Fascinating](https://jalopnik.com/this-teardown-of-a-tesla-model-s-battery-pack-is-pretty-1792825178)** > > The Tesla battery pack is something of a triumph of packaging. The battery pack is integrated into the skateboard-like chassis of the car, making a self-contained drivetrain-and-energy-storage unit that allows for really flexible body packaging. It’s... > **[Tesla Model S](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S)** > > The Tesla Model S is a battery electric executive car with a liftback body style built by Tesla, Inc. since 2012. The Model S features a battery-powered dual-motor, all-wheel drive layout, although earlier versions featured a rear-motor and rear-wheel drive layout. > Development of the Model S began prior to 2007, under the codename "WhiteStar". The Model S was officially announced on June 30, 2008, and a prototype vehicle was unveiled in March 2009. The Model S debuted on June 22, 2012. A revi... The 85 kWh battery pack weighs 1,200 lb (540 kg) and contains 7,104 lithium-ion battery cells in 16 modules wired in series (14 in the flat section and two stacked on the front). Each module contains 6 groups of 74 cells wired in parallel; the 6 groups are then wired in series within the module. As of June 2012, the battery pack used modified Panasonic cells with nickel-cobalt-aluminum cathodes. Each cell was of the 18650 form factor (i.e., an 18 mm diameter, 65 mm height cylinder), similar to the Panasonic NCR18650B cell that has an energy density of 265 Wh/kg. Analysts estimate battery cost to be around 21–22% of the car cost. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1127 "2018-05-10T00:31:30Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Someday Tesla might be able to compete with GM on electric cars, but until you can walk into a store and buy one with less than a week’s wait, it’s little to compare. Revisiting some of these old posts 9 months later… I have to laugh a bit at this since it’s like the old joke “No one goes to that restaurant anymore. It’s too crowded.” It is of course still true that Tesla is very far away from delivering a Model 3 with a week’s wait. But on the other hand, for all of Tesla’s manufacturing difficulties, the Model 3 is outselling the Bolt by a factor of 3. In fact, it’s outselling (in the US) all other pure EVs by at least a factor of 3. May should be interesting sales-wise. Tesla claims that they are sustaining 2k/wk at this point. April didn’t show a big boost over March because they were shut down for a week and because they weren’t at the current production level for all of that (also, deliveries lag production). If they can make it through May without a shutdown and sustain the 2k/wk rate, they’ll double April’s production. They’ll have a chance at exceeding all other US pure EV sales combined–including both S and X sales. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1128 "2018-05-11T01:16:49Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Revisiting some of these old posts 9 months later… > > Originally Posted by Pleonast View Post > Someday Tesla might be able to compete with GM on electric cars, but until you can walk into a store and buy one with less than a week’s wait, it’s little to compare. > > I have to laugh a bit at this since it’s like the old joke “No one goes to that restaurant anymore. It’s too crowded.” GM isn’t losing massive amounts of money. So right now Pleonast has it right. Tesla is not in a competitive position. they’re still struggling to get out last year’s model and they don’t have much of an infrastructure to handle a serious recall. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1129 "2018-05-11T04:34:27Z")
What exactly do Tesla’s financials have to do with the desirability and demand of the Model 3 vs. the Bolt? No one chooses a car based on how profitable the manufacturer is. (I’ll refrain from snarking on the fact that GM was losing tens of billions a year not long ago and had to be bailed out at taxpayer expense) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1130 "2018-05-11T04:39:21Z")
A charging question, which would apply to both the Tesla 3 and the Bolt - Assume a daily commute which might range from 20 to 40 miles and that you know about significantly longer trips in advance. Is it of any difference to battery longevity if the battery is topped off to its allowed max by each morning or programmed to stop charging at say 70% over night. IOW is it better to keep the car’s charging up and down in the middle of the battery’s capacity than closer to the top? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1131 "2018-05-11T05:13:26Z")
It’s better to keep the battery in the middle. Anywhere from roughly 20-80% is fine, though, and of course going beyond that isn’t an immediate battery-killer, but will take lifetime off a bit faster than otherwise. Tesla supports a percentage charge limit that I keep at 80%. I believe that even 90% is basically fine (the GUI says that values above that are “trip mode”), but I don’t need more so I may as well be gentle. Since my commute is short, I could just charge to 80% at the beginning of the week, and I’d still be well over 20% by the end, so I could use that charging strategy if I wanted. But I prefer to keep it topped off and that’s no problem either. And as you mention, I know about long trips in advance, and can charge to the full 100% in those cases. Since the battery doesn’t spend much time in that state (a half-day, say, assuming I leave the next day), it loses very little life. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1132 "2018-05-11T05:36:37Z")
Thanks. “100%” of the max that the software allows, which I thought was capped at 80% of actual theoretical capacity on these cars (both Tesla 3 and Bolt I thought but could be wrong). I may be getting myself a Bolt soon. My plug-in hybrid 2013 C-Max Energi was in an accident that will likely get itself declared a total by insurance (wife driving with teen aged daughter in car both fine). Had hoped to hold out for the Volvo EV and preferably for when they released it with autonomous capability and had a year or two to work the bugs out … but oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1133 "2018-05-11T05:49:46Z")
I don’t know what the Bolt allows, but for Tesla the cap is close to the cell limit. I’m sure they add some margin since there’s a point where cell degradation starts getting really bad, but I suspect it’s more on the order of 95% than 80%. You can then dial it down further from there depending on your needs. I’m pretty sure the Bolt is similar even if the numbers are slightly different. It makes sense to give the driver the option of using the full capacity at their discretion. It’s the same on the bottom end; I suspect Tesla reserves 5% or so but recommends not even reaching that point. It’s not so bad to do from time to time, though. A couple weeks ago I met a guy at a Supercharger who claimed that he worked for Tesla and that he was down to 2% charge :). Sorry to hear about your C-Max, but glad that your loved ones are safe. I’ve only heard positive things about the Bolt, including from friends, so I think it’ll be a fine replacement. I certainly won’t deny that there are advantages in availability! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1134 "2018-05-11T21:05:46Z")
[Interesting](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/994980692160217088?s=21): > [@Elon Musk](#): > > Tesla will enable orders end of next week for dual motor AWD & performance. Starting production of those in July. Air suspension prob next year. Guess the rumors about pairing AWD+air suspension were wrong. Given that, and previous claims that AWD would cost less than on the S, I’m guessing AWD will be in the $3-4k ballpark. More for the P version. Probably a good thing I didn’t hold out for the performance version… I’d have been too tempted. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1135 "2018-05-11T21:27:10Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > [Interesting](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/994980692160217088?s=21): > Guess the rumors about pairing AWD+air suspension were wrong. Given that, and previous claims that AWD would cost less than on the S, I’m guessing AWD will be in the $3-4k ballpark. More for the P version. > > Probably a good thing I didn’t hold out for the performance version… I’d have been too tempted. Still no word on standard range and non-premium. I totally get from a business perspective that with a limited manufacturing capacity they’re going to only make the most profitable model for as long as demand exists. I wish they would give some indication of how long they’re going to wait, or just cancel it outright, so I can get on with making decisions about what car to buy. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1136 "2018-05-11T22:31:41Z")
Agreed–kinda sucks for people in your position. I’m not sure that even Tesla has much of a clue when they’ll skip the base model. I don’t think their strategy is much more complicated than “ship the expensive versions until they run through the existing waiting list, then take off the extras one at a time”. They can see how fast they’re running through the reservation list, but guessing what portion of the remainder is waiting for AWD/perf/white seats/etc. vs. base/base+PUP/etc. is probably tricky. I’d bet $1000 that they do ship the base model, though. Maybe not in large numbers, but if for no other reason than to say they did. Would be the same as the Model S 40, battery pack swap station, etc. Ultimately canceled, but did exist at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1137 "2018-05-12T06:39:57Z")
Correction: > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I’m not sure that even Tesla has much of a clue when they’ll **ship** the base model. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1138 "2018-05-12T07:32:46Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > What exactly do Tesla’s financials have to do with the desirability and demand of the Model 3 vs. the Bolt? No one chooses a car based on how profitable the manufacturer is. anybody can lose money making cars. I could sell Corvettes all day long for $35,000. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1139 "2018-05-12T07:41:51Z")
Selling at a $9k/vehicle loss doesn’t seem to be working that well for the Bolt… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1140 "2018-05-12T08:04:26Z")
[An amusing (and positive) opinion piece from Car & Driver](https://i.redd.it/kgbbbtwxmax01.jpg). > [@](#): > > Point is, I think I can figure out one extra step to adjust my mirrors as opposed to paying for a junky-looking plastic barnacle permanently attached to the door. I think all car companies go to their side-view-mirror-switch suppliers and say, “What’ve you got that looks like Fisher-Price made a rat tumor?” After driving the Model 3 for a while, I’m inclined to agree. Not just the lack of plastic rat tumors on the doors, but _everything_. On the outside, there’s no cutout for the plug. The door handles are flush. There’s no obvious antenna (Which is something I loved about my E46–it also uses the defrost wires for the antenna. Why does every modern car have a stubby antenna or a sharkfin? They’re hideous.). No “anime car” styling. There’s not even a badge! And on the inside, there aren’t buttons plastered on every available surface. No tacky-looking vents. And the main display doesn’t look like a $99 tablet from 2011. Other cars are gross in comparison. The Model 3 is just so… pleasant to drive. There is no physical control that you don’t use just about every day. The screen and voice command handle the rest. When you’re driving, the majority of your field of vision is just the road and the smooth expanse of the dashboard. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1141 "2018-05-12T15:14:44Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Selling at a $9k/vehicle loss doesn’t seem to be working that well for the Bolt… It’s working very well. GM is making a profit and can easily ramp up production as desired as EV’s become financially viable. Tesla is all-in with no plan B. It is losing a great deal of money. Enough to bankrupt it in a very short period of time. They don’t have the manufacturing or dealership infrastructure to compete with the major auto makers. It is heavily invested in a battery technology that is likely to be replaced with a non-volatile battery when they become available. The write down of that is going to be painful. Tesla’s branding is based on a luxury niche line of cars that stood to make a profit. Using that brand as a multiplier for a cheaper massed produced car is a really good strategy if it generates a profit. Even a small profit. But if it generates a loss then it becomes a multiplier for the loss as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478.md?page=56) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478.md?page=58)