# Tesla Model 3 anticipation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 31, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478 "2017-07-31T04:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/141 "2017-11-05T16:59:05Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > (edit: this was in response to **LSLGuy** , **DSeid** posted while I was writing this) > > the other thing is that the Takata situation is its own massive pooch-screw on an unprecedented scale. I don’t think there’s been anything which as been anywhere near as big and affected so many car companies in one go. I do remember reading that the affected automakers had to jump through a lot of hoops to be able to talk with each other on how to handle it (anti-trust/collusion concerns.) > > But in general, my experiences with assembly plants is that if you’re in regular production the goal is to keep the line moving. A _defective_ part won’t necessarily stop the line; e.g. if they install the dashboard and at a later station power the vehicle and find out that the radio doesn’t work, they don’t stop the line; they just tag the VIN, finish building the vehicle, divert it to the repair bay to have the radio replaced, and re-run it through final. in this case, they’re still building complete vehicles, just one ends up needing a part change and re-inspection before it’s OK To Ship. > > A “Stop Build” event is almost always due to either a part shortage or non-conforming parts which can’t physically be installed. At that point it makes the most sense to halt production until the problem is fixed because vehicles could be in various stages of completion and you don’t know if only one part is non-conforming or they all are. Why would you keep building them with missing parts if you have to then have someone take half of the damn vehicle apart to install it once available? So they stop, haul the supplier in to sort and certify good stock, and re-start the line once that’s done. > > a “stop ship” is where an issue is found which may affect vehicles which are already built and out in the holding yard. It might be called for because of something found in the plant e.g. a tool out of calibration which wasn’t caught right away, or if a supplier notifies that vehicles may have been built with non-conforming parts. At that point no vehicles can be shipped out to dealers, people have to go out to the holding yards and inspect/tag affected vehicles which then have to be brought back in to the repair stations. any vehicles already shipped, the receiving dealers will get a notice of a “delivery hold” on those vehicles which mean they have to be repaired before they can be sold to a customer. > > So yes, it does happen where cars & trucks might need something addressed at the dealer before sale, but it’s not business as usual and God help you if you’re a supplier responsible for a stop build or stop ship. it will cost you dearly. There’s also the “stop sale” recalls that can be for a major item, or for something seemingly trivial. I remember when I sold Buicks and GMC’s in 2015. We had a stop sale recall on the Buick Encore (their most popular model, a small crossover, built in South Korea) because the sticker in the driver’s door didn’t indicate the proper tire pressure and wheel size for the vehicle! That lasted about a week, then it was determined that new stickers would be shipped to dealers as soon as they could get them. The fix in the meantime from a genuine GM bulletin? Have a service technician with a fine-point Sharpie write in the necessary inflation and wheel size information neatly in the space that was unintentionally left blank. I’m not kidding. Then when the stickers were delivered, the service department had to go out to each and every Encore we had and remove the old ones and put in the new, while the sales department had to arrange with customers that had already purchased Encores before the discovery to meet with them somewhere (usually their homes) and apply the new stickers themselves. The utter irony of a huge kerfluffle being made over this versus the tragic and defenseless lack of an intial recall for GM’s ignition issues that actually KILLED people and was actively swept under the rug for years was not lost on me. The pendulum has certainly swung really far in the other direction, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/142 "2017-11-05T17:01:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I would call the Model 3 an economy car. It’s certainly an entry level/mass produced model that’s a significant departure from it’s other models. It’s an economy car _for a Tesla_, when compared to the costs of their other models. It’s certainly not, by price point, in the regular economy car spectrum. Heck, I drive a 2015 Buick Regal, a midsize luxury sports sedan that’s almost completely optioned out as a Premium II model and it stickered for $38,800. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/143 "2017-11-05T20:17:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Hmm. The car starts basic at $35K and most planning on buying one are [expecting to pay $45 to 50K for the package](https://electrek.co/2017/04/06/tesla-model-3-average-sale-price-data/). I was factoring in the savings in gasoline as part of the cost but if that doesn’t align it with the cost of economy cars then I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/144 "2017-11-06T00:41:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I was factoring in the savings in gasoline as part of the cost but if that doesn’t align it with the cost of economy cars then I stand corrected. Ah, I see. For reference sake, a Corolla costs about $1,200 a year in gas; and a Model 3 would probably cost $600 or so in electricity. Considering a Corolla costs around $24,000 with every option maxed, there is no way the math of fuel savings works out for a Model 3 to be considered a competitor in any way. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/145 "2017-11-06T01:59:13Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Ah, I see. For reference sake, a Corolla costs about $1,200 a year in gas; and a Model 3 would probably cost $600 or so in electricity. > > Considering a Corolla costs around $24,000 with every option maxed, there is no way the math of fuel savings works out for a Model 3 to be considered a competitor in any way. _Actually_ \, for base model early purchasers of the Model 3, they will get a 7500 tax break. $35k-7.5k = $27.5k. So for those folks, technically they would make up for the cost difference in gas in about 5 years, maybe less if electricity is cheap where they live. But that’s the government basically just giving some free money away, it doesn’t change the math on the manufacturing side, and the gravy train of tax credits only applies to the first set of M3 purchasers who pre-ordered ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/146 "2017-11-06T02:21:37Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > _Actually_ \, for base model early purchasers of the Model 3, they will get a 7500 tax break. $35k-7.5k = $27.5k. So for those folks, technically they would make up for the cost difference in gas in about 5 years, maybe less if electricity is cheap where they live. > > But that’s the government basically just giving some free money away, it doesn’t change the math on the manufacturing side, and the gravy train of tax credits only applies to the first set of M3 purchasers who pre-ordered And them only if it is not removed as part of a tax package, if one actually happens. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/147 "2017-11-06T12:15:33Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > _Actually_ \, for base model early purchasers of the Model 3, they will get a 7500 tax break. $35k-7.5k = $27.5k. … the gravy train of tax credits only applies to the first set of M3 purchasers who pre-ordered You’re overlooking that the production of the bare-bones M3 is going to be pushed to focus on the higher cost M3’s, with the increased range and options, per Elon himself. So the early deliveries are going to those paying $45k or so. Tesla seems very likely to hit its 200,000 vehicle cap early in 2018; so the credit will be cut in half by late summer 2018. The only question is whether Tesla will have more or less exhausted the reservations of people wanting well equipped M3s by late summer. I’m guessing no. The production seats make this even more unlikely. That’s why I’ve been saying the odds of more than a very small percentage of M3 buyers have any hope of paying less than $30k, despite the widespread belief to the contrary. But, there’s zero question that an M3 is a better car in probably all respects than a Corolla. That’s why it costs more than a car that costs $18-24k. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/148 "2017-11-07T02:39:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > That’s why I’ve been saying the odds of more than a very small percentage of M3 buyers have any hope of paying less than $30k, despite the widespread belief to the contrary. You are absolutely correct and I was wrong. This almost never happens… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/149 "2017-11-07T03:07:41Z")
If Tesla can’t produce the cars promised then the economic might of established car makers will quickly fill the void. Any options that Tesla adds to their cars will be quickly duplicated by companies with deeper pockets and the ability to put them on the road in a timely manner. I think economic forces will eventually move Tesla into a components distributor. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/150 "2017-11-07T11:43:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If Tesla can’t produce the cars promised then the economic might of established car makers will quickly fill the void. Any options that Tesla adds to their cars will be quickly duplicated by companies with deeper pockets and the ability to put them on the road in a timely manner. > > I think economic forces will eventually move Tesla into a components distributor. Depends on your definition of “quickly.” Look at any EV being designed and tested by any of the largest manufacturers: VW’s offerings are supposed to trickle out in the early 2020s. GM made a huge priority for the Bolt, and is now teasing several variants in the next five years or so. Toyota and Honda seem to be mostly uninterested in EVs. For as much as I think Tesla has been dishonest to its customers, the idea that they are going to leave “voids” that persist for several years just doesn’t make any sense. Plus, to Elon’s credit, he’s never argued that Tesla is going to be the only, or the majority, of the EV market in the US. He’s said several times that I can think of that he’s happy to have other car companies jump on the bandwagon. And it is clear that Tesla is going to beat the snot out of some competitors. The VW e-Golf SEL, for example, costs the same as the Model 3, has like 60% of the range, has double the 0-60 time, and the 2018 model has about the same availability as the Model 3. And did I mention that they are the same price? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/151 "2017-11-07T13:18:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Depends on your definition of “quickly.” I would define “quickly” as the time it takes to replicate a product. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/152 "2017-11-07T13:50:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I would define “quickly” as the time it takes to replicate a product. So, five years is “quickly.” I don’t agree, but whatever. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/153 "2017-11-07T14:36:18Z")
I’m not a fan or Tesla cars or electric cars in general: hate the design, hate the lack of engine/exhaust noise, hate the range anxiety and impracticality for extended trips. However, here’a a [good youtube video on the Model 3 by Doug DeMuro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6VqldjTT8), a pretty entertaining and knowledgeable automobile enthusiast. Doesn’t change my mind but interesting nevertheless. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/154 "2017-11-07T14:38:17Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So, five years is “quickly.” I don’t agree, but whatever. Where are you getting 5 years? There is nothing in a Tesla that Toyota or GM can’t duplicate in the next model year if they feel there’s a profit to be made. As has been pointed out, electric cars have far fewer parts in them. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/155 "2017-11-07T14:40:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Where are you getting 5 years? There is nothing in a Tesla that Toyota or GM can’t duplicate in the next model year if they feel there’s a profit to be made. As has been pointed out, electric cars have far fewer parts in them. Nonsense. in order to get that 200-300 miles of range per charge, you have to have a _lot_ of battery in the vehicle, to the point where you’re almost building the car around the battery. You can’t bung that kind of capacity onto an existing vehicle architecture within a year. at best you’ll get a “compliance car” like the Fiat 500ev and Ford Focus Electric, both with about 70-90 miles of range (and all storage capacity sacrificed to the battery.) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/156 "2017-11-07T14:50:04Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m not a fan or Tesla cars or electric cars in general: hate the design, hate the lack of engine/exhaust noise, hate the range anxiety and impracticality for extended trips. > … Different strokes … The lack of noise is exactly their best feature. If I could kill every unmuffled pickup truck, muscle car, and motorcycle driver who maliciously vandalizes my neighborhood every day I’d soon be the deadliest man to ever live. It’s a hundred a day easy. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/157 "2017-11-07T15:05:42Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > If I could kill every unmuffled pickup truck, muscle car, and motorcycle driver who maliciously vandalizes my neighborhood every day I’d soon be the deadliest man to ever live. It’s a hundred a day easy. Agreed. Most after market exhaust mods are an idiotic menace to domestic tranquility. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/158 "2017-11-07T15:28:10Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m not a fan or Tesla cars or electric cars in general: hate the design, hate the lack of engine/exhaust noise, hate the range anxiety and impracticality for extended trips. > > However, here’a a [good youtube video on the Model 3 by Doug DeMuro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6VqldjTT8), a pretty entertaining and knowledgeable automobile enthusiast. > > Doesn’t change my mind but interesting nevertheless. That’s a much better video than the ones that popped up when it was first released. Techies will like it, Those who like standard controls will hate it. ---
**Author:** ![gregorio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@gregorio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gregorio)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/159 "2017-11-07T15:44:01Z")
I’m only 42 seconds in and the trim gap between the front and rear door is driving me crazy. I don’t know if he addresses it or not, but that is all I’m noticing on that car. That is not a good first impression. I am not a Tesla detractor. I think they’re very cool and if it suited my needs I would consider buying one. But not that one in the video. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/160 "2017-11-07T15:58:29Z")
> [@gregorio](#): > > I’m only 42 seconds in and the trim gap between the front and rear door is driving me crazy. I don’t know if he addresses it or not, but that is all I’m noticing on that car. That is not a good first impression. > > I am not a Tesla detractor. I think they’re very cool and if it suited my needs I would consider buying one. But not that one in the video. While I like extra features in a car I viscerally hate non-traditional controls. I couldn’t hate that computer screen more. I want physical controls I can operate without looking down. Tesla was going for the cool factor and IMO they nailed it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478.md?page=9)