# Tesla Model 3 anticipation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 31, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478 "2017-07-31T04:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 93
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1842 "2018-09-29T00:08:24Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It’s a risk on Musk’s part, certainly. And the SEC clearly knows how to judge pain points, for Musk to be right on the verge of settling but to back away at the last minute. Stepping down from the board for two years would have been a little more painful than my guess, but not hugely so, and wouldn’t really affect much in the long run (the board pretty much goes along with Musk, anyway). Whether this is solely Musk’s ego at work or if his lawyers think they can legitimately get a better deal is anyone’s guess. of course it’s his ego. If he listened to “his lawyers” (meaning, Tesla’s OGC if they have one) at all he wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1843 "2018-09-29T03:42:29Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > –I was thinking about putting in a limit order for $250 and it didn’t dip that low. Well, there is always tomorrow. And the day after. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1844 "2018-09-29T06:35:02Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > The problem here is the Musk was already given an extremely generous offer by the SEC, for some incredibly flagrant actions. They are, perhaps, not the most serious or malicious actions ever undertaken, but there’s really no getting around it: Musk did exactly what they said he did, and people have been punished worse for less. He should have been begging for a deal like what they offered. > > Instead, Musk just tied a huge heavy stone to his foot and kicked it off into the middle of a very deep, very cold lake. They are going to come after him hard, and barring Jury Nullification I don’t see any way he can get out of a worse punishment. Reading between the lines a bit, I think Musk disagrees that what he did was actually illegal according to the plain text of the law. It may have been unwise, sloppy, poorly thought out, and very far outside the accepted practice for a publicly-traded company, but it’s not crystal clear to me either that it was factually illegal. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1845 "2018-09-29T10:59:07Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Reading between the lines a bit, I think Musk disagrees that what he did was actually illegal according to the plain text of the law. It may have been unwise, sloppy, poorly thought out, and very far outside the accepted practice for a publicly-traded company, but it’s not crystal clear to me either that it was factually illegal. the SEC doesn’t decide how to act based on what some guy on the internet thinks is “crystal clear.” You’re not “reading between the lines,” you’re just trying to spin it in a way which agrees with how you _wish_ things were. you can only “read between the lines” if there’s something there to read, it’s not license to make stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1846 "2018-09-29T11:51:30Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Reading between the lines a bit, I think Musk disagrees that what he did was actually illegal according to the plain text of the law. It may have been unwise, sloppy, poorly thought out, and very far outside the accepted practice for a publicly-traded company, but it’s not crystal clear to me either that it was factually illegal. The laws appear to cover reckless actions. I do not think there is a crystal clear line that must be crossed for unwise, sloppy, poorly thought out, and very far outside the accepted practice types of actions to be considered reckless. I think they are pretty much the same thing. And as far as what’s in his head, he appears to genuinely think that terraforming Mars is more easily accomplished than controlling climate change on Earth, so there’s plenty of room to question his judgment. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1847 "2018-09-29T16:58:02Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Another nice feature is pushing navigation destinations from a phone/desktop to the car. I’ll use that one a lot. The Android app updated this morning, and when I click on a location Tesla is one of the apps offered to open the location. When I select Tesla I get a message: ! Error Your vehicle does not support starting navigation from the mobile app. I keep checking my router logs every morning, but I haven’t seen the car get any large downloads. And you people laughed at me when I assigned it a static IP. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1848 "2018-09-29T17:47:39Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > the SEC doesn’t decide how to act based on what some guy on the internet thinks is “crystal clear.” You’re not “reading between the lines,” you’re just trying to spin it in a way which agrees with how you _wish_ things were. you can only “read between the lines” if there’s something there to read, it’s not license to make stuff up. I am not doing anything of the sort. > **[A former SEC lawyer says the agency shouldn't have sued Elon Musk](https://www.businessinsider.com/sec-wrong-to-sue-elon-musk-for-fraud-lawyer-2018-9)** > > The SEC sued Tesla CEO Elon Musk on Thursday, saying he made "false and misleading" statements in August about possibly taking Tesla private. Former SEC senior counsel Thomas Gorman told Business Insider he disagreed with the agency's decision. > [@](#): > > But a former SEC lawyer told Business Insider he disagrees with the agency’s assessment. > > Thomas Gorman, a partner at the law firm Dorsey & Whitney and former SEC senior counsel, said Musk’s statements, which he made on Twitter, weren’t smart from a business perspective, but that doesn’t necessarily mean Musk committed fraud. > > “There’s a significant difference between bringing a law enforcement action, charging someone with fraud, and saying, ‘This is not really a great way to do your business,’” Gorman said. > … > Gorman said the Saudi fund’s reported interest in a take-private deal was enough to make Musk’s statements legal, if ill-advised. And the SEC’s current allegations that Musk hadn’t ironed out the details don’t change that, Gorman said. > > “There’s a reasonable basis for what he said,” Gorman said of Musk’s tweets. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1849 "2018-09-29T21:32:30Z")
he’s out as chairman plus $20 mil fine [DocumentCloud](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4951959-Musk.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1850 "2018-09-29T21:50:36Z")
Hey, I got the number of digits in the fine right. Out as chairman for 3 years… not so bad, really. A tad harsher than I was expecting but not obscenely so. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1851 "2018-09-29T22:02:09Z")
Don’t members of the board tend to be rather weak in many corporations, unless they’re the company’s founder/spokesman/messiah like Musk? He can still be on the board, just not the official chairman, right? 20M$ to him is like 20$ to me. Hopefully, he’ll realize that using Twitter like Travis Bickle uses a mirror makes him look like Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1852 "2018-09-29T22:34:52Z")
Boards are pretty weak, and Tesla’s even more so–it’s populated with Musk’s friends and family, and so pretty much goes along with what he says. All in all, a good result. No significant damage to Tesla, and a fine big enough to make Musk think before tweeting twice next time. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1853 "2018-09-29T22:43:06Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Even if he settles up later, it’s going to be a lot less pleasant. Well, that didn’t happen. The new settlement is slightly better than the old one: although he’s ousted as chairman for 3 years instead of 2, he is allowed to remain on the board. At first I thought they had dropped the requirement for appointing two new board members, but it appears there was a [separate settlement](https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226) that covered that. I got this one right, too :): > [@SEC](#): > > Tesla will establish a new committee of independent directors and put in place additional controls and procedures to oversee Musk’s communications; ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1854 "2018-09-29T23:38:37Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > I am not doing anything of the sort. Since Musk just knickled under, this is all academic, but Gorman’s take was flat wrong. We don’t know when exactly that guy said it, but it’s been established that Musk had nothing more than a relaxed meeting with a Saudi representative, which established precisely nothing. No numbers, no plan, not even a verbal agreement to anything. Also Musk m(after denying it) admitted he made up the $420 number as a drug joke to impress his girlfriend. Second, Musk apparently misled his own staff for some time, to the point that his head of Investor Relations was telling people factually untrue statements about the non-deal. And Musk, rather than immedaitely rolling it back or clarifying that there was a misunderstanding, went semi-silent (well, for Musk) and le the whole question linger. > [@Dr. Strangelove](#): > > Well, that didn’t happen. The new settlement is slightly better than the old one: although he’s ousted as chairman for 3 years instead of 2, he is allowed to remain on the board. Doing a second about-face in two days is not exactly what anybody saw coming, I expect. But he actually got a rose deal; being on a board, for Musk, means virtually nothing. The key is that he’s been ousted as Chair for even longer. There’s also no guarantee he’ll be put back on it. A lot can happen in three years. Then again, that may be better for Tesla and also for Elon Musk. I don’t have a terribly positive image of hi, and I expect both him and the company would be better with more mature, non-batshit leadership. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1855 "2018-09-30T00:35:29Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > The key is that he’s been ousted as Chair for even longer. There’s also no guarantee he’ll be put back on it. Maybe the Board can buy him a child seat. But seriously, I’m glad the situation is resolved and hopefully Elon will take some time for self reflection. (You know, like every other instance when he’s behaved like a manic jackass.) Here’s hoping that my TSLA will recover a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1856 "2018-09-30T00:48:59Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Doing a second about-face in two days is not exactly what anybody saw coming, I expect. But he actually got a rose deal; being on a board, for Musk, means virtually nothing. Being on the board at all seems far more valuable than being chairman. Being on the board gives him a voice to the other members–not something he’d have otherwise. I suspect there are rules for contact between board members and everyone else and there could be claims of interference if Musk tried to influence them without a seat. Chairman, though, is just a contact point between the board and the executives. That seems especially redundant when we’re talking about the CEO. Reading around some more, it seems the SEC have a very hard deadline on the first settlement–not enough time to think things through. Musk only took the second settlement after, among other things, talking with Mark Cuban (who went through his own SEC bullshit). Changing his mind is only unexpected if you start with the premise that Musk never listens to anyone ever, and never backs away from anything. That’s not supported by reality, even if he is an egotist. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1857 "2018-09-30T02:00:16Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Reading around some more, it seems the SEC have a very hard deadline on the first settlement–not enough time to think things through. Musk only took the second settlement after, among other things, talking with Mark Cuban (who went through his own SEC bullshit). If by “SEC bullshit” you mean using insider information Cuban used in the decision to sell his stock in [Mamma.com](http://Mamma.com) based on information that CEO Guy Faure testified to providing him, then that is hardly “bullshit”. The SEC lost the case not because there wasn’t credible testimony but because Faure absented himself to Canada to avoid testifying. Cuban is smart enough to insulate himself from a lot of what he does, but he very clearly has a pragmatic view toward violating securities regulations in his investments, and is more generally the kind of asswipe that names his 288 foot yacht “Fountainhead”. What Musk did was unambiguously in violation of SEC regulations even if he actually had the supposed financing in place by Saudi investors. And those regulations don’t exist to stifle innovation or any other pseudo-libertarian nonsense; they exist to create a level playing field between public investors and the people who have information that they can use to manipulation public perception and stock prices. Absent of that, we get inflationary cycles and market crashes which have a disproportionate impact on middle class investors, and general exploitation by people who are “in the know”. I doubt Musk was deliberately trying to manipulate stock prices because there is essentially zero evidence that he is a strategic thinker, but when you issue public stock you accept responsibility to your stockholders and legal obligations to follow SEC regulations. He is lucky to have gotten off with the settlement he has, a conclusion any securities lawyer would have concluded in the five minutes it would have taken to read the original offer. The notion that he didn’t have time to “think things through” is belied by the fact that Musk doesn’t think that laws should apply to him at all. It’s the same dickishness that he displayed when originally was told that to win EELV contracts that he would have to make good effort to adhere to SMC-S-016 and other applicable government standards for design and qualification testing of components on SpaceX launch vehicles. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1858 "2018-09-30T02:22:18Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > If by “SEC bullshit” you mean using insider information Cuban used in the decision to sell his stock in [Mamma.com](http://Mamma.com) based on information that CEO Guy Faure testified to providing him, then that is hardly “bullshit”. Sorry, I was only using bullshit in a very general sense of unpleasantness, not making any claim about legitimacy. I don’t have any particular complaint about the SECs actions here. I do have complaints about selective enforcement, though, and think they largely turn a blind eye toward “their own” and favor media spectacles over actions that would truly reduce market manipulation. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1859 "2018-09-30T15:16:37Z")
DOJ is also looking at Musk for criminal violations. That might go away since he agreed to the civil penalties. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1860 "2018-09-30T15:38:34Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Being on the board at all seems far more valuable than being chairman. Being on the board gives him a voice to the other members–not something he’d have otherwise. I suspect there are rules for contact between board members and everyone else and there could be claims of interference if Musk tried to influence them without a seat. Chairman, though, is just a contact point between the board and the executives. That seems especially redundant when we’re talking about the CEO. Musk is the CEO. He can talk to the board any time he wants; there’s no law at all that says he can’t, and good sense says he should. Being CEO and Chairman is prestigious and makes him effectively his own boss. (I view that kind of setup as a bad design; CEO’s who have to report probably do better, although it’s very hard to measure.) I’ve seen Board memebers seek information and access to corporate officers, or investigate areas they want to understand better, although that’s not as common as it should be. Being on the board gives him a vote in company affairs, but being removed as Chairman means he may get independant oversight going forward. After his antics, big institutional investors are likely likely to favor his board candidates in the future, and the 2-3 new ones we get will ask questions and push him to do better. ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1861 "2018-09-30T22:49:38Z")
At the risk of rerailing the thread, does anyone know if the $1k Destination and Documentation Fee applies to all orders, or just deliveries (i.e. cars not picked up at the factory)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478.md?page=92) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478.md?page=94)