# Tesla Model 3 anticipation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 31, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478 "2017-07-31T04:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 95
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1882 "2018-10-03T04:02:10Z")
Hmm. I agree that the X isn’t _great_ looking, though I wouldn’t say it’s outright unattractive (and the doors are awesome). Mainly it looks like a puffy S. The I-Pace has one of the biggest disparities in looks from the front vs. the back that I’ve seen. Looks great from the front–and Aztek-level hideous from the rear. At any rate, the I-Pace isn’t really comparable to any of Tesla’s products right now. We’ll have to wait for the Y for that. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1883 "2018-10-03T06:42:39Z")
I saw my first Model 3 “in the wild” yesterday. I was at the local bakery getting some breakfast when a grey M3 rolled into the parking lot and stopped a few spaces down from me. I waited to say hello to the driver and out stepped an octogenarian (one of the guys who is at that bakery every morning playing cribbage actually). I asked him what he thought and he just said “it’s fast” and headed inside 😃 ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1884 "2018-10-03T14:11:42Z")
Not to mention that the Ipace is also a fair bit cheaper than the X. If I was in the market for an ESUV it’d be the I Pace at this point. I do like the falcon doors, though. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1885 "2018-10-03T17:55:39Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > “it’s fast” That’s the same thing I tell anybody who asks me about it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1886 "2018-10-08T09:31:10Z")
Just got back from a [road trip](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21254528&postcount=729). 523 miles, averaged 229 W-h/mi. The Superchargers really do make this kind of thing possible. I stopped to charge twice, both for around 20 min. Almost exactly as long as it took to walk to the nearest McDonalds, take a piss, and grab something to go. So in that regard, there was zero time wasted. I did have to wait in line at the second stop, but it took \<10 min. I’d have had to stop for gas once or twice in a gas car, so I’m calling that a wash. Autopilot, too, was really great, and I used it for \>90% of the trip. Just makes everything that much more pleasant. One somewhat interesting thing–the efficiency when warm out was better than when cool. I actually averaged 199 W-h/mi for the first ~100 miles, but the average went down as it got cooler out. I think this is a combination of air density and tire pressure (which went from 49 psi to 45). Also, headlights and the heater may have been a factor. I think the heater is less efficient than the A/C for a given temperature difference, since it’s resistive as compared to a heat pump. Fairly small effects individually, but it seems to have added up to a ~10% difference. Regardless, 229 W-h/mi is pretty great efficiency. It means my effective charge rate at a Supercharger is 524 mph. I think that speed (as opposed to watts or battery fraction or whatever) is really the key metric for charging “goodness”. For comparison, the I-Pace gets 416 W-h/mi highway efficiency and can currently only charge at 50 kW (this may change at some point, but that’s the way it is now). As such, its charging rate is 120 mph. You’ll spend over 4x as long charging in one as compared to a Model 3. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1887 "2018-10-08T13:33:26Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Just got back from a [road trip](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21254528&postcount=729). 523 miles, averaged 229 W-h/mi. > > The Superchargers really do make this kind of thing possible. I stopped to charge twice, both for around 20 min. Almost exactly as long as it took to walk to the nearest McDonalds, take a piss, and grab something to go. So in that regard, there was zero time wasted. > > I did have to wait in line at the second stop, but it took \<10 min. I’d have had to stop for gas once or twice in a gas car, so I’m calling that a wash. > > Autopilot, too, was really great, and I used it for \>90% of the trip. Just makes everything that much more pleasant. > > One somewhat interesting thing–the efficiency when warm out was better than when cool. I actually averaged 199 W-h/mi for the first ~100 miles, but the average went down as it got cooler out. I think this is a combination of air density and tire pressure (which went from 49 psi to 45). Also, headlights and the heater may have been a factor. I think the heater is less efficient than the A/C for a given temperature difference, since it’s resistive as compared to a heat pump. Fairly small effects individually, but it seems to have added up to a ~10% difference. > > Regardless, 229 W-h/mi is pretty great efficiency. It means my effective charge rate at a Supercharger is 524 mph. I think that speed (as opposed to watts or battery fraction or whatever) is really the key metric for charging “goodness”. For comparison, the I-Pace gets 416 W-h/mi highway efficiency and can currently only charge at 50 kW (this may change at some point, but that’s the way it is now). As such, its charging rate is 120 mph. You’ll spend over 4x as long charging in one as compared to a Model 3. What speed did you set to? For my Bolt, I notice a significantly worse charge-efficiency when I’m cruising on the highway at 70 mph vs city streets at 40 mph (even including starts and stops). I typically get 3.5 to 4.5 mi/kWh, which means you’re likely getting better mileage than I am, for equivalent driving conditions. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1888 "2018-10-08T15:33:21Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Just got back from a [road trip](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21254528&postcount=729). 523 miles, averaged 229 W-h/mi. > One somewhat interesting thing–the efficiency when warm out was better than when cool. I actually averaged 199 W-h/mi for the first ~100 miles, but the average went down as it got cooler out. I think this is a combination of air density and tire pressure (which went from 49 psi to 45). Also, headlights and the heater may have been a factor. I think the heater is less efficient than the A/C for a given temperature difference, since it’s resistive as compared to a heat pump. Fairly small effects individually, but it seems to have added up to a ~10% difference. According to Tesla, the most efficient thing to do when cold is leave the cabin heater off, and use the seat heaters. To really run down the battery, use the auto climate control, with one side about 8 degrees warmer than the other, and the outdoor temperature and sun just right so that both the A/C and heater are running. I didn’t check my W-h/mi, but a 30 mile trip used 50 miles of range. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1889 "2018-10-08T20:00:26Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > What speed did you set to? 65-70 pretty much the whole way. I was stuck in traffic for a big chunk of that 199 W-h/mi segment, though–moving \<10 mph. Surprising that the efficiency stayed up there even with the AC, etc. on. My lifetime average is 249 W-h/mi, but that’s with a lot of night driving on I-5 at 75-80 mph. Looks like 220 is closer to the mark if I can keep my speeds just a tad lower. > [@echoreply](#): > > According to Tesla, the most efficient thing to do when cold is leave the cabin heater off, and use the seat heaters. Really I should have just turned the heat off completely. It wasn’t cold by any means, but I had the climate control set to 70 and so it enabled the heater. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1890 "2018-10-08T20:11:33Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Just got back from a [road trip](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21254528&postcount=729). 523 miles, averaged 229 W-h/mi. > > The Superchargers really do make this kind of thing possible. I stopped to charge twice, both for around 20 min. Almost exactly as long as it took to walk to the nearest McDonalds, take a piss, and grab something to go. So in that regard, there was zero time wasted. I’ve probably missed it somewhere, so I’ll ask. Is there a charge for Tesla Superchargers like I have to pay for chargepoint and the like? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1891 "2018-10-08T20:16:28Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’ve probably missed it somewhere, so I’ll ask. Is there a charge for Tesla Superchargers like I have to pay for chargepoint and the like? Some owners get free Supercharging (previous S and X owners, and Performance Model 3 owners), but most of us Model 3 owners have to pay. All of the locations I’ve been to in CA charge $0.26 per kW-h. It’s just a tad cheaper than gas at that price. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1892 "2018-10-08T20:38:34Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Some owners get free Supercharging (previous S and X owners, and Performance Model 3 owners), but most of us Model 3 owners have to pay. All of the locations I’ve been to in CA charge $0.26 per kW-h. It’s just a tad cheaper than gas at that price. I’d say it’s significantly cheaper: (0.26 /kWh) / (4.0 mi/kWh) = 0.065 /mi (3.50 /gal) / (35 mi/gal) = 0.100 /mi You can play with the numbers, but a third cheaper is a big deal. That’s like paying a dollar less per gallon for gas, for which people would form long queues. But you’re right that that price for electricity is high. I pay 0.08 $/kWh when I charge at night at home. Charging away from home is for long trips. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1893 "2018-10-08T20:41:09Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’ve probably missed it somewhere, so I’ll ask. Is there a charge for Tesla Superchargers like I have to pay for chargepoint and the like? Depends on the car and when it was bought. I believe most model S & X were purchased with free supercharging for the life of the vehicle, but this got dropped for new vehicles, in lieu of a yearly supercharging credit (400 kWh) covering about a thousand miles. Same thing for the Model 3 Performance ($$) version. Regular Model 3 does not have free supercharging or any sort of credit that I know of, unless you get a referral from an existing owner, which gives you a whopping $100 worth (pick me! pick me!). There isn’t any sort of physical credit card reader for Superchargers - it just bills directly to your account. Supercharging prices are generally designed to be cheaper than gasoline, but more expensive than charging at home. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1894 "2018-10-08T20:50:16Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’d say it’s significantly cheaper: I used figures a bit more favorable to the gas car to be as fair as possible, but yeah, either way it’s cheaper. I used 40 mpg for instance, though the most comparable BMW is only 32 mpg. > [@Pleonast](#): > > But you’re right that that price for electricity is high. I pay 0.08 $/kWh when I charge at night at home. Charging away from home is for long trips. Yeah–I pay $0.11 for night rates, and at that price there’s no question that it’s way cheaper than gas. Something like 280 of my trip miles were from home charging (I charged to 310 to start but never dipped below 30), with 240 from Superchargers. So really the cost average is maybe $0.18/kW-h. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1895 "2018-10-08T20:52:27Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > There isn’t any sort of physical credit card reader for Superchargers - it just bills directly to your account. Forgot to mention this–it’s really convenient. You just roll up and plug in. As you say, there’s no car reader or anything. The in-car display tells you how much juice you’ve used and the price. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1896 "2018-10-09T14:19:26Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Forgot to mention this–it’s really convenient. You just roll up and plug in. As you say, there’s no car reader or anything. The in-car display tells you how much juice you’ve used and the price. Can you clarify? I think you mean “there’s no card reader or anything”. Or do you really mean the charge terminal doesn’t identify the car at all? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1897 "2018-10-09T18:10:36Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Can you clarify? I think you mean “there’s no card reader or anything”. Or do you really mean the charge terminal doesn’t identify the car at all? Sorry, yeah–that should have been _card_ reader. The car is identified through the charge cable. No need for anything extra. Charging in San Luis Obispo was an experience. Because there was a wait, we had sort of a free-form line. At first, it was sorta obvious where the “back” of the line was, but after a while it wasn’t so clear, and people coming up had to ask. In any case, everyone was super friendly and polite and everyone kept track of whose turn it was. It also appeared that everyone was coming back from the SpaceX launch. I’ve read about this kind of friendliness at Superchargers before, so I’m happy to see it being maintained even with a big inrush of Model 3s. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1898 "2018-10-09T23:35:00Z")
Now that I think about it, it’s entirely possible that the Supercharger _doesn’t_ know who you are. The car does, though, and that you’re at a Supercharger and have used so many units of energy. It also has constant communication with Tesla. So it’s entirely possible that everything is handled by the car itself, not the charger. In principle, this approach would make it possible to hack your car to get free juice. But as far as I know, no one has yet broken the firmware signing on a Tesla. And besides, stealing electricity that way seems like a really low-payoff effort. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1899 "2018-10-10T11:26:40Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Charging in San Luis Obispo was an experience. Because there was a wait, we had sort of a free-form line. So, what’s the charging etiquette in that kind of situation? Just enough to get to another charging station, okay to 100%, 50%, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1900 "2018-10-10T13:51:37Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Now that I think about it, it’s entirely possible that the Supercharger _doesn’t_ know who you are. The car does, though, and that you’re at a Supercharger and have used so many units of energy. It also has constant communication with Tesla. So it’s entirely possible that everything is handled by the car itself, not the charger. > > In principle, this approach would make it possible to hack your car to get free juice. But as far as I know, no one has yet broken the firmware signing on a Tesla. And besides, stealing electricity that way seems like a really low-payoff effort. The charger probably has some way to confirm it’s a Tesla hooked up (even if it doesn’t know which one), otherwise I could put an adapter on my Bolt’s plug and steal electricity. > [@Balthisar](#): > > So, what’s the charging etiquette in that kind of situation? Just enough to get to another charging station, okay to 100%, 50%, or what? I can’t speak for Tesla chargers, but general-use fast chargers often have a rule like “charge up to 80% battery capacity or 30 minutes charging time, whichever comes first”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478/1901 "2018-10-10T21:18:38Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > So, what’s the charging etiquette in that kind of situation? Just enough to get to another charging station, okay to 100%, 50%, or what? I don’t know that I have a complete grasp, but I expect that: - Don’t charge to 100%. The charge rate really tails off when you get to those high levels and you’re “wasting” the Supercharger at that point. You’ll save your own time and others if you move on when you get to ~70%. The Superchargers are placed close enough together that you don’t need the 100% charge anyway. - If you have a home charger, only charge to the point where you have a small amount left when you get back. Most people at the SLO charger were headed to the Bay Area, so 200ish miles would be fine for most. From what I saw, most people were spending ~20 min there (estimated based on there being 10 stalls and someone leaving every couple of minutes). I suppose that if there is another charger between you and the destination, and you have reason to believe that the next one will be less crowded, then it’s only polite to just charge to the point of getting there (plus some margin). But if you’re just trading time between one stop and other, there’s no problem in staying at the first charger a bit longer. It just means you’ve left a longer opening at the next stop. In less crowded situations, “urinal policy” applies: don’t park right next to someone unless there are no other openings. Charge current is shared to an extent, so you’ll potentially slow down your neighbor when you plug in. More specifically, the stalls are numbered 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, etc. and the A-B pairs share a supply. Superchargers do charge for idle time now ($1/min), so at least people aren’t going to be leaving their cars there for no reason. And the fact that prices are generally higher than home charging will motivate people to save Superchargers for road trips (as was the intent). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478.md?page=94) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-model-3-anticipation-thread/792478.md?page=96)