# Tesla Motors vs. the NYT **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301 "2013-02-14T17:57:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/41 "2013-02-14T23:15:00Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > He said that he was looking for the charging stations in the Milford service area (which is pretty big). Why wasn’t this included in his article? It definitely fits as an issue with driving electric. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/42 "2013-02-14T23:18:13Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Why wasn’t this included in his article? It definitely fits as an issue with driving electric. I’ll tell you my guess: He probably felt it would be a cheap shot at Tesla. (“Had I been a touch more attentive, I might have seen the charging station the first time. I’m reluctant to hold this against them.”) This kind of restraint, by the way, makes Tesla’s lame nitpicking look all the more desperate in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/43 "2013-02-14T23:32:28Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Oh - so if the computer tells you the car is shutting down, you’re supposed to stay on the road to eke out the last dregs of mileage, risking a shutdown right in the middle of a traffic lane? Out of curiosity, do you pull your car over and call a tow truck when your gas light first turns on? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/44 "2013-02-14T23:57:32Z")
It wasn’t simply a matter of the gas light coming on. From the [original article](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the-ev-highway.html): "The displayed range never reached the number of miles remaining to Milford, and as I limped along at about 45 miles per hour I saw increasingly dire dashboard warnings to recharge immediately. Mr. [Ted] Merendino, the product planner, found an E.V. charging station about five miles away. But the Model S had other ideas. ‘Car is shutting down,’ the computer informed me. I was able to coast down an exit ramp in Branford, Conn., before the car made good on its threat." The product planner was a Tesla employee. In other words, he was on the phone with Tesla employees who were advising him how much further he could drive. Would you expect to have to be on the phone with someone from General Motors if your car was running low on gas? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/45 "2013-02-15T00:26:16Z")
I’m kind of loving this. I have no idea who to believe! I keep flip flopping on this one. Right now the person I want to hear from is the tow truck guy who was on the phone with Tesla for 20 minutes. Now I’m on NYT’s side. Your move Tesla. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/46 "2013-02-15T00:36:54Z")
> [@Mgalindo13](#): > > Out of curiosity, do you pull your car over and call a tow truck when your gas light first turns on? When gas gets low enough, my car displays a warning message and the expected remaining driving range (when that range drops to lower than 20 miles, the display reads \*\*\*). If I was driving an unfamiliar car and the message displayed was SHUTTING DOWN, I’d find the side of the road damn fast. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/47 "2013-02-15T01:18:09Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The product planner was a Tesla employee. In other words, he was on the phone with Tesla employees who were advising him how much further he could drive. Would you expect to have to be on the phone with someone from General Motors if your car was running low on gas? Eh, to be fair, we don’t need to call GM regarding fuelling conventional vehicles because we’ve all been surrounded by internal combustion engines since birth. In an alternate universe where people were first exposed to internal combustion engines at age 40, I doubt that would be true (especially since conventional fuel gauges are baffingly inaccurate for a device that’s had a century of development behind it.) I don’t think its unreasonable that new drivers need advice from Tesla when trying to figure out how the car works. That said, it does sound like the range estimates on the Tesla are pretty off. They should’ve either fixed this or at least made it more clear to the driver that he’d need a large buffer. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/48 "2013-02-15T01:59:47Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Here’s the thing. In those graphs, they write that “At 182 miles, Broder said [then a quote about setting cruise control or the temperature]”. > > Broder never specified the mile at which he did this. Only that they happened shortly after he entered NJ. And the logs clearly show that the temp was dropped to 70 F and then 65 F for an extended period. Not at precisely 182 miles, but I don’t know where Tesla is getting this as the point at which this was supposedly done. Here’s the thing – look at the log. The speed is never as low as 54 miles per hour until the car has gone 400 miles. Unless he was circling around New Jersey, it’s pretty clear that he wasn’t driving at the speed he claims. Besides 00 that stretch (which correlates with where hed be at that point) is the only part that has the stability you’d expect from cruise control. Everyplace else the speed has spastic noise all over it. But, again, what’s your point? For most of 400 miles his speed is 60 miles per hour or higher – going to 70 and above for not-insignificant portions. They told him to keep it to 55. He didn’t. > [@](#): > > I did look at the log. I know you did too, which is why it’s so curious that you see “usually drove faster” when I—and Tesla! who wrote that the average speed over this distance was indeed just 60 mph. The dots are very slightly raised over the line, so maybe it was 60.5 mph? But I don’t think that’s what you meant. Hmmm – so now you DO think it was in that stretch. No, when I said “usually faster” I was referring to that 400 mile stretch. And I’m not exaggerating 00 look at it. > [@](#): > > And again, I’m no stranger to driving, increments of 5 mph or so are generally the level of granularity I get with my speedometer. No car should see a substantial degradation in performance by a deviation of that size. No gas car, perhaps. I don’t know what the requirements are for an electric car. > [@](#): > > Overall, I think Tesla hopes to make the debate “What was the exact distance driven when you claim you turned the temperature down to a sultry 72 F?!?!?” Sultry, indeed. That you could say "he only lowered it to 72-74 with a straight face (I’m assuming it’s straight) tells me that you probably haven’t really thought about what you’re saying. _Lowered_ to 74? That’s pretty damned hot. If he really were _lowering_ it to 74 he would have been far out of line, using his electrical power on excessive heating. In fact, 74 was about as hot as he got it. But I notice that, even after he let it drop down to 64 (where my house is normally set), he STILL let it go up to 74 two mor times. [/quote] But the real issue is, driving the car under realistic conditions, even making some, if imperfectly observed concessions to range-maximization efforts, this car just is not ready foe prime-time. Not at $15 thousand and definitely not at $100 thousand. [/QUOTE] I don’t know if they claimed prime-time status for it. My understanding was that they were showing off the availability of charging stations, and the ability of the car to travel reasonable distances. Which is why they were so pissed about the article. They feel that ability was mistrepresented. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/49 "2013-02-15T02:07:32Z")
I haven’t read this yet, but [here](http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/that-tesla-data-what-it-says-and-what-it-doesnt/#more-180855) is John Broder’s response to Elon Musk. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/50 "2013-02-15T02:16:35Z")
Well after reading that, I may have to switch teams. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/51 "2013-02-15T14:18:45Z")
[CNN Money](http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/15/autos/tesla-model-s/index.html) decided to drive the same route and had no issues. And I find it hilarious that after reading that, my co-worker who spent all day yesterday badmouthing Tesla and the car is suddenly claiming that “no one is badmouthing the car”. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/52 "2013-02-15T14:34:25Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > [CNN Money](http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/15/autos/tesla-model-s/index.html) decided to drive the same route and had no issues. I didn’t see any mention of the weather during that trip (supposedly a big issue with the car’s range was its marked decrease in cold winter driving). ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/53 "2013-02-15T14:42:33Z")
But you expected that, in February, it was no longer cold? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/54 "2013-02-15T14:46:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I haven’t read this yet, but [here](http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/that-tesla-data-what-it-says-and-what-it-doesnt/#more-180855) is John Broder’s response to Elon Musk. From the article: “I was given battery-conservation advice at that time (turn off the cruise control; **alternately slow down and speed up to take advantage of regenerative braking** ) that was later contradicted by other Tesla personnel.” (my bolding) If someone from Tesla really told him that, they’d better find the guy and terminate him with extreme prejudice. Even electric cars have to follow the laws of thermodynamics. I hope the advice was actually something like “brake gently and with plenty of space, so you can take advantage of regenerative braking, and not use the friction brakes.” (Teslas have friction brakes, don’t they?) ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/55 "2013-02-15T14:51:01Z")
What Broder has proven is what a lot of EV aficionados have been saying all along: Battery EVs are still ill-suited for long road trips. What Elon Musk has proven, once again, is that he is a thin skinned jerk, who does not take criticism very well. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/56 "2013-02-15T14:57:48Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I didn’t see any mention of the weather during that trip (supposedly a big issue with the car’s range was its marked decrease in cold winter driving). Personally, I’m curious if he left the car outside overnight. Isn’t that what caused a big drop in battery efficiency with the NYT writer? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/57 "2013-02-15T15:25:56Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Some commentators over on reddit have pointed out that Broder doesn’t normally review cars for the paper. His normal writing topic is oil and oil policy. He had an agenda. Here’s what he said in yesterday’s blog post, “Since 2009, I have been the Washington bureau reporter responsible for coverage of energy, environment and climate change. I have written numerous articles about the auto industry and several vehicle reviews for the Automobiles pages. (In my 16 years at The Times I have served as White House correspondent, Washington editor, Los Angeles bureau chief and a political correspondent.)” So, no, he doesn’t normally review cars, but has done so in the past. And I’m curious what sort of “agenda” you think he had. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/58 "2013-02-15T16:15:36Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I didn’t see any mention of the weather during that trip (supposedly a big issue with the car’s range was its marked decrease in cold winter driving). He said in the article that it was 10 degrees warmer than during the NYT test. > [@Maus Magill](#): > > What Broder has proven is what a lot of EV aficionados have been saying all along: Battery EVs are still ill-suited for long road trips. > > What Elon Musk has proven, once again, is that he is a thin skinned jerk, who does not take criticism very well. But the CNN guy just made the same trip no problem. Your post and that test seem to be in contradiction. ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/59 "2013-02-15T16:33:28Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > What Broder has proven is what a lot of EV aficionados have been saying all along: Battery EVs are still ill-suited for long road trips. > > What Elon Musk has proven, once again, is that he is a thin skinned jerk, who does not take criticism very well. I don’t think anyone has said that EV’s don’t require a little more forethought, but the argument is that it’s not really that much more trouble. If you plan your routes and think ahead you’ll be just fine. As other posters have said, my biggest issue with the NYT article is that the author gave the impression that he was doing everything possible to maximize his mileage when he didn’t. This may have been due to a lack of knowledge and may not have been malicious, but at the very least he chose not to inform himself. Could Tesla have done a better job holding his hand? Yes. Should they have? Probably. Though, I might argue that it’s a journalists responsibility to fully research and understand whatever they are reporting on, including a new technology like this one. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/60 "2013-02-15T17:58:56Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > He said in the article that it was 10 degrees warmer than during the NYT test. > > But the CNN guy just made the same trip no problem. CNN guy gave himself a 70 mile buffer, 35% of the expected trip length, and wound up with about 30 miles of range left when he was done. NYT guy had a 42 mile buffer, 20% and wound up with 0 miles left. In both cases the car claimed about 40 miles of range that it didn’t deliver on. Considering that one of the biggest issues with EVs is range, requiring a 35% buffer when planning a trip is a major problem. If I MUST have the car 100% fully charged to reliably take a 200 mile trip, the car’s range is 200 miles, not 270. You can’t plan to use those 70 miles, because you might not get them, and you have to plan your route if you’re going anywhere near 200 miles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301.md?page=4)