# Tesla Motors vs. the NYT **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301 "2013-02-14T17:57:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/161 "2013-02-26T13:52:22Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [This Reuters story](http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/02/25/business/25reuters-tesla-nyt.html) says that the Times article resulted in about $100 million in lost sales and cancelled ordered. More specifically - the Reuters story reports that the _Tesla CEO_ is claiming that there are $100 million in lost sales due to the Times story. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/162 "2013-02-26T16:33:10Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > More specifically - the Reuters story reports that the _Tesla CEO_ is claiming that there are $100 million in lost sales due to the Times story. He said there was a loss of $100 million in company valuation, and he explicitly said not “lost sales”. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/163 "2013-02-26T16:43:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It wasn’t a test of anything beyond the experience of using the station. It was suppose to be a free plug for the company’s supercharger station which would take about 1 sentence to print. Then you would agree that printing a picture of the car getting towed was irrelevant to the story, yet that is what they printed. > [@](#): > > Tesla’s the one bitching not me. Ask them. I think they’re fuck stupid for complaining. Of course they are complaining. Even the editor agreed, the story had problems. You disagree with the NYT editor? > [@](#): > > I seriously doubt anybody is going to spend $100k on a car with the expectations of waiting 30 minutes for a charge every couple hundred miles. It’s not a particularly good selling point for a luxury car. Did Tesla sleep with your wife? Your posts about this topic are foaming at the mouth irrational and illogical. > [@](#): > > I noticed the author drove it normally which is how he should have driven it. That wasn’t the question. Not sure why that is such a difficult question to answer. The question relates to the reporter stating he drove at 54 and resulted in range of X when in reality he drove much faster which drops the range. When the reporter is inaccurate about the speed driven and the resulting mileage, I think it’s logical to want to correct that. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/164 "2013-02-26T16:56:01Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > He said there was a loss of $100 million in company valuation, and he explicitly said not “lost sales”. Huh? Quote from the linked article: > [@](#): > > Musk says that Tesla has lost about $100 million in sales and canceled orders due to the Times story, which said the sedan ran out of battery power sooner than promised during a chilly winter test drive from Washington D.C. to Boston Besides, the only point I’m making is that Reuters isn’t reporting numbers of lost sales and orders, or what’s due to the Times article - Reuters is reporting _what Musk told them_ about lost sales & orders and the Times article. That’s a crucial difference. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/165 "2013-02-26T17:04:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by The Niply Elder > It has been adequately priced at $60g-$100g to appeal to wealthy, educated individuals who have a basic understanding of science, and are motivated to vote with their wallet to foster the growth of an industry that will radically improve our lives by cutting pollution, reducing our impact on global warming and stimulating our economy by radically reducing the cost of energy to conduct business. > [@Magiver](#): > > Yah, that’s why people buy them. :dubious: It has nothing to do with the fact that they look nice and are fun to drive. That’s the main reason I bolt my Volt. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/166 "2013-02-26T18:31:54Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Huh? Quote from the linked article: > > Besides, the only point I’m making is that Reuters isn’t reporting numbers of lost sales and orders, or what’s due to the Times article - Reuters is reporting _what Musk told them_ about lost sales & orders and the Times article. That’s a crucial difference. I didn’t realize he was that explicit about it, the article I read where they asked that exact question he responded with something like “I’m not saying 1,000 orders were cancelled, I’m saying the value of the company dropped” Found the quote: “It probably affected us to the tune of tens of millions, to the order of $100 million, so it’s not trivial…I would say that refers more to the valuation of the company. It wasn’t as though there were 1,000 cancellations just due to The New York Times article. There were probably a few hundred.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/167 "2013-02-26T19:44:54Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > That’s the main reason I bolt my Volt. your post can be interpreted 2 ways. Were you making a statement with your wallet or did you like the car for it’s driving experience? Because if you bought it under the idea that it’s saving the planet then that depends on how you’re able to charge it. In pure electrical mode that only works if 75% or more of the power is generated from natural gas generating plants. If not, a conventional hybrid is the better technology to forward right now. From Argonne Wells to Wheels analysis of Energy Use and Greenhouse Gas Emissions of Plug in Hybrid Electrical vehicles, Page 25. [PDF link](http://www.afdc.energy.gov/pdfs/argonne_phev_evaluation_report.pdf) “An International Energy Agency report examining hybrid and electric vehicle technologies concluded that PHEVs operating in charge-depleting (CD) mode can outperform HEVs in terms of GHG emission reductions if 75% or more of the required electricity is generated from combined-cycle natural gas (Passier et al. 2007).” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/168 "2013-02-27T02:30:29Z")
I cannot get the actual Argonne study to load but it must be noted that that study is [the outlier](https://sites.google.com/site/nwpriusplus/home/well-to-wheel-greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-electric-vehicles) compared to a variety of other studies and real world data. Of note Argonne claimed about 634 Wh/m (63.4 kWh/100 mile); EPA testing has the Volt at a far better 34 kWh/100 mile. [Here’s](http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/clean_vehicles/electric-car-global-warming-emissions-report.pdf) another analysis. > [@](#): > > Nearly half (45 percent) of Americans live in BEST > regions—where an EV has lower global warming emissions than a 50 mpg gasoline-powered vehicle, topping > even the best gasoline hybrids on the market. Charging > an EV in the cleanest electricity regions, which include California, New York (excluding Long Island), the Pacific Northwest, > and parts of Alaska, yields global warming emissions equivalent > to a gasoline-powered vehicle achieving over 70 mpg. > Some 38 percent of Americans live in BETTER regions — > where an electric vehicle has the equivalent global warming emissions of a 41 to 50 mpg gasoline vehicle, similar > to the best gasoline hybrids available today. > For example, charging an EV in Florida and across most of > Texas yields global warming emissions equivalent to a 48 mpg > gasoline vehicle; this is the fuel economy level of vehicles such > as the Honda Civic Hybrid (44 mpg) and Toyota Prius Hybrid > (50 mpg) … A pretty cool map is part of that article. It is also true that the US grid is becoming much less coal intense and much more natural gas intense – a consequence of the natural gas bonanza. And the grid is likely to become less carbon intense over time. And don’t forget the other factor – natural gas, nuclear, even coal, are all produced closer to home. Nice to be a bit less dependent on other countries’ oil reserves. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/169 "2013-02-27T03:04:26Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I cannot get the actual Argonne study to load but it must be noted that that study is [the outlier](https://sites.google.com/site/nwpriusplus/home/well-to-wheel-greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-electric-vehicles) compared to a variety of other studies and real world data. Of note Argonne claimed about 634 Wh/m (63.4 kWh/100 mile); EPA testing has the Volt at a far better 34 kWh/100 mile. you missed the point of my cite. Running on charge only produces more green house gases than a standard hybrid because of the source of the power. > [@DSeid](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/clean_vehicles/electric-car-global-warming-emissions-report.pdf) another analysis. > A pretty cool map is part of that article. > > It is also true that the US grid is becoming much less coal intense and much more natural gas intense – a consequence of the natural gas bonanza. And the grid is likely to become less carbon intense over time. > > And don’t forget the other factor – natural gas, nuclear, even coal, are all produced closer to home. Nice to be a bit less dependent on other countries’ oil reserves. Not sure why you can’t get it to load but you can download it. Be prepared for a lot of acronyms. Not sure if you understood what I posted. Most power generation is coal. So driving an electric car is basically driving a coal powered vehicle. It defeats the purpose of saving the universe from GHG and we have to pretend China isn’t raping the land to produce the raw materials needed for the electric motors and batteries. I fully appreciate the ideas behind electric cars. I’ve stated this many times in many ways starting with a desire to get out from under the thumb of oil producers. My objection to the Volt is twofold. One, batteries don’t recharge fast enough. And because of that attribute it will not sell well which makes it a guaranteed money loser from a company that I was forced to bail out. I think it’s every bit the car of the future. I’ll even go so far as to say the near future in the expectation that battery technology catches up. But as I stated before it’s off the shelf technology. It’s nothing but a reworked Prius. But as such it represented a lot of capital to bring an entirely new platform to market just as any other new model would represent. Given it’s guaranteed low sales numbers (and profit loss) it was a flaming waste of corporate capital that could have been put into reworking existing models. And given today’s current reliance on coal for electrical power it also represents more green house gases in relation to other hybrids. That was my point. I like or at least want to like the car for the driving experience. But I think a C-Max is a better fit in today’s market. It has a peppy engine/motor combination and can deliver high 30’s in all conditions. This is the car we should be driving to work today. not tomorrow, TODAY. You of all people should understand that purchasing decision. All of that is going to change. The problems with batteries will be solved and realistically the only replacement for coal will be natural gas which we have an abundance of and can and will be put into motion in the near future because of the coal plants being forced to shut down. There simply isn’t another technology that can be built in time. Nuclear power is an expensive quagmire and solar and wind are limited by location. Now me personally, I want to build an electric car for the fun of it. And I mean the fun of it. Realistically you can’t drive a sports car at the speeds they allow for. An electric motor has great potential for enhancing day-to-day driving. When the job market picks up I hope to post my toy on the Dope. To make this response relevant to the thread, I think Tesla should sell the luxury, beauty, fun and exclusivity of their cars and not the GHG fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/170 "2013-02-27T03:14:45Z")
Regarding the amount of time it takes to recharge electric cars, a company called [Better Place](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place) has one solution; rather than recharging the batteries in a car, they just replace the battery with a fully-charged one. This requires cars that are designed for this purpose of course, and an infrastructure including battery-swap stations. And if you’re using an electric car for commuting, recharging is also not an issue for most people; supposedly on average an American drives less than thirty miles a day. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/171 "2013-02-27T04:40:39Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Regarding the amount of time it takes to recharge electric cars, a company called [Better Place](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place) has one solution; rather than recharging the batteries in a car, they just replace the battery with a fully-charged one. This requires cars that are designed for this purpose of course, and an infrastructure including battery-swap stations. OK, for that to work, and this exactly is what they did 100 years ago with Taxis, you have to have the infrastructure and that would start in large cities. Tel Aviv would be a perfect place to do it where gasoline is $9/gallon. Looking at your article lets see how it went: As of mid September 2012, there were 21 operational battery-swap stations open to the public in Israel,[6] and as of October 2012, 490 cars have been sold.[7] In early October 2012, Agassi resigned from his role as worldwide Better Place CEO, and was replaced by Evan Thornley, CEO of Better Place-Australia. Briefly, Agassi remained on the company board, but a week later he resigned from that position as well. A few days after Thornley’s appointment, Better Place asked its investors for a round of emergency funding, totaling about $150 million.[8][9] On October 29, 2012, Ynet reported that Better Place would that week lay off 150 to 200 people out of its 400-person staff in Israel as it seeks financing to combat its cash-flow problems. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And if you’re using an electric car for commuting, recharging is also not an issue for most people; supposedly on average an American drives less than thirty miles a day. And yet Volt sales are not doing well and this is a hybrid car with an ice motor to back it up. It has the range that a pure electric doesn’t. Seems like a ready-made market in Israel for the car but what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/172 "2013-02-27T07:33:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Most power generation is coal. So driving an electric car is basically driving a coal powered vehicle. It defeats the purpose of saving the universe from GHG and we have to pretend China isn’t raping the land to produce the raw materials needed for the electric motors and batteries. Sorry to nitpick but power generation is not mostly coal. It’s 42%, and in leading states like here in California it’s as little as 1%. Regardless, electric vehicles would really help alleviate the smog that accumulates in the valleys depending on weather. And I’m not sure about pretending anything about China, but if you are referring to rare-earth metals, the Tesla motor does not have it. And the Lithium used in the batteries is usually collected from salt flats. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/173 "2013-02-27T08:41:55Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > Sorry to nitpick but power generation is not mostly coal. It’s 42%, and in leading states like here in California it’s as little as 1%. Regardless, electric vehicles would really help alleviate the smog that accumulates in the valleys depending on weather. [5.7% of their energy is from coal](http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/electricity/electricity_generation.html)(you didn’t include imported electricity). When you add up nuclear, wind,solar,thermal and biomass California is at the breakeven point of 70% I mentioned above. as for the US, it’s more like[45% coal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_generation). As I said before, that will change over to natural gas in the future because of the abundance of NG and the only viable replacement for the coal plants being shut down. > [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > And I’m not sure about pretending anything about China, but if you are referring to rare-earth metals, the Tesla motor does not have it they use AC motors, should have checked considering what I learned about power equipment recently. Ignorance fought. > [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > And the Lithium used in the batteries is usually collected from salt flats. Yes and the environmental problems depend on how it’s mined and that depends on where it’s mined. China has close to a third of all Lithium reserves and Chile has over half. Hopefully we’re not trading one monopolized resource for another but that’s not an environmental issue. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/174 "2013-02-27T12:16:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > you missed the point of my cite. Running on charge only produces more green house gases than a standard hybrid because of the source of the power. Sorry you can not comprehend the response. If you assume that the vehicle uses twice as much electricity than it does, then you need your power generation to be twice as clean. > [@](#): > > Not sure why you can’t get it to load but you can download it. Be prepared for a lot of acronyms. Not sure if you understood what I posted. Most power generation is coal. So driving an electric car is basically driving a coal powered vehicle. Huh? On several fronts. It does not download, load, whatever. I get a first page then it fails. I instead have an article that reviews its numbers in context of other analyses and real world testing. And as pointed out, no, coal is no longer king. [Natural gas has reached parity](http://www.ogfj.com/articles/2013/01/coal-declines.html)\* and is rising. Even a few years ago, my linked article, regional variation was such that battery powered vehicles were better for GHGs than hybrids in most of the country. Those numbers have only improved to less coal generation (and less dirty coal) since. > [@](#): > > It defeats the purpose of saving the universe from GHG and we have to pretend China isn’t raping the land to produce the raw materials needed for the electric motors and batteries. A separate point which we have addressed in many of these past threads with dueling cites of [complete lifecycle analysis](http://www.environment.ucla.edu/media_IOE/files/BatteryElectricVehicleLCA2012-rh-ptd.pdf) – with my having previously lined to many studies that concluded total lifecycle analysis was in favor of the EV for GHGs and total pollution and the hybrid being the most cost effective solution. Which without quoting brings us to the last section of your post and much of your persistent problems in these discussions. _Every_ vehicle is a niche vehicle. The C-Max is indeed the best choice for me. If I had a slightly longer daily commute and no need to seat 5, the Volt might be. Never a need to travel between cities or even something like 90 plus in one day, with that car, then a Leaf might be. Tesla is the right choice for someone who is otherwise in the market for a luxury performance vehicle; not for someone who regularly needs to go between cities with the vehicle (even if their branded network can allow a car to manage to get from one city to another). A diesel is a better choice for someone doing lots of long highway commutes, I think. So on. You seem stuck in these discussions only looking at one hypothetical person’s needs, a hypothetical person whose needs are just like yours, a very particular niche vehicle. \*To quote: > [@](#): > > The latest information from the US Energy Information Administration shows that total electricity production during the past summer rose by just 6% over the past decade. However, during this same period, electricity generation by natural gas surged by 61%. Power generation from coal fell 17% during this time. Clearly, natural gas is gaining market share in power gen. > > For the first time ever, the EIA says that generation from natural gas and coal are roughly equal. These two remain the two largest fuels for generating electricity. Nuclear, in third place, remains flat since no new nukes have been built in the US since the 1970s. Hydroelectric power increased by 6% during this time, and renewable power – mostly wind generation – grew by 7%. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/175 "2013-02-27T20:02:48Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Even a few years ago, my linked article, regional variation was such that battery powered vehicles were better for GHGs than hybrids in most of the country. Those numbers have only improved to less coal generation (and less dirty coal) since. A separate point which we have addressed in many of these past threads with dueling cites of [complete lifecycle analysis](http://www.environment.ucla.edu/media_IOE/files/BatteryElectricVehicleLCA2012-rh-ptd.pdf) – with my having previously lined to many studies that concluded total lifecycle analysis was in favor of the EV for GHGs and total pollution and the hybrid being the most cost effective solution. and the link I cited shows battery charge needs a natural gas level of 70% to break even on pollution compared to a standard hybrid. > [@DSeid](#): > > Which without quoting brings us to the last section of your post and much of your persistent problems in these discussions. _Every_ vehicle is a niche vehicle. The C-Max is indeed the best choice for me. If I had a slightly longer daily commute and no need to seat 5, the Volt might be. Never a need to travel between cities or even something like 90 plus in one day, with that car, then a Leaf might be. Tesla is the right choice for someone who is otherwise in the market for a luxury performance vehicle; not for someone who regularly needs to go between cities with the vehicle (even if their branded network can allow a car to manage to get from one city to another). A diesel is a better choice for someone doing lots of long highway commutes, I think. So on. You seem stuck in these discussions only looking at one hypothetical person’s needs, a hypothetical person whose needs are just like yours, a very particular niche vehicle. > > \*To quote: You can’t seem to get passed that the fact that the Volt isn’t selling well because people don’t think it fits THEIR niche, not mine. I probably have a higher desire to own an electric car than most people do but I’m realistic about what to expect. Teslas should be flying off the shelf because of their performance and general style but Tesla keeps trying to sell them as green which is not their strong suit. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/176 "2013-02-27T20:22:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > and the link I cited shows battery charge needs a natural gas level of 70% to break even on pollution compared to a standard hybrid. Yes. Hence my coment that that study is the outlier one using figures of EV efficiency that are roughly half that other analyses, the EPA, and real world data have shown. > [@](#): > > You can’t seem to get passed that the fact that the Volt isn’t selling well because people don’t think it fits THEIR niche, not mine. I probably have a higher desire to own an electric car than most people do but I’m realistic about what to expect. Teslas should be flying off the shelf because of their performance and general style but Tesla keeps trying to sell them as green which is not their strong suit. The Volt does not fit the niche for many for several reasons, including cost and seating capacity. Still, its sales are up three fold for 2012 compared to 2011. Not bad. And the field is more crowded, what with the Energi line, the plug-in Prius, so on. Tesla is, even after the NYT debacle, seeling as many as they build. Agreed they would be wiser to market to their strength. ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/177 "2013-03-05T16:00:35Z")
Looks like Tesla just lost a lawsuit against the BBC show Top Gear for similar stuff. [http://www.stltoday.com/news/world/uk-court-rejects-tesla-lawsuit-against-bbc/article\_5b22c967-ea9a-578c-bbc3-eb05f24847c1.html](http://www.stltoday.com/news/world/uk-court-rejects-tesla-lawsuit-against-bbc/article_5b22c967-ea9a-578c-bbc3-eb05f24847c1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301/178 "2013-03-05T17:45:20Z")
A Chippendale’s luggage went missing on a flight to an out-of-town performance, so he visited a men’s store for an off-the-rack suit. Unfortunately, one of the arms of the suit which he tried on was too long. The sales-person told him to bend and lift his elbow. But that bunched up the collar on one side, so the sales-person told him to lay his head over to the other side and lean his body that way too. This caused him to tread on one of the pant cuffs. The sales-person told him to bend his knee and stand on his toes on that foot. With everything now adjusted to fit properly, the Chippendale walked back to the theatre, and being a Chippendale he was not surprised that women looked him over. The passersby commented to each on the physically challenged man’s beautiful suit. Tesla makes beautiful cars. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors-vs-the-nyt/650301.md?page=8)