Didn’t see that initially - should ten degrees difference (daytime? overnight low?) make that much difference?
Seeing as thus far this winter we’ve had swings in daytime highs between about 20 and 60, the variation could be significant, yes.
Having read the story just now, that’s kind of an overstatement. He never said he did everything you could possibly do, and even within the parameters of his trip he went to a fair amount of trouble. If you’re taking that trip, you already don’t want to slow down that much or turn down the heat that much and call the company. And he may have reduced speed and temperature too late, but that doesn’t obviate the problem. To some extent this is a risk inherent in doing a ‘how is a typical customer going to use this product?’ type of story. You can only guess what the typical customer is going to do. But you can assume not everybody is going to do the smart thing all the time, and if the focus was on making the trip in a sensible amount of time and relying only on the supercharge stations, I think he worked within those parameters. The story is also nowhere near as negative as you’d think given Tesla’s hyperbolic reaction and its borderline attempt to kill the guy’s career.
You read both article, right?
So you know that in neither case did they actually drive 55, right? Both tests drove faster than 55 while on the freeway.
But the range estimate is based on 55 mph.
Therefore we can’t conclude anything about range at 55 mph, but we do know that when you increase the speed the range does drop.
Am I supposed to care what the range is at 55 mph? I care what the range is when I’m actually driving on actual roads in the U.S. of A. That means traffic, hills, other cars, cold weather and going over 55 mph on the freeway.
This is an electric car, and you have to plan your recharge points. If you let the car display a range number, it better mean something useful for planning purposes, and not just be a marketing fantasy that will leave me stranded on the side of the road.
What, like EPA estimates?
Juts like with your current car, driving at 75 mph is substantially less efficient than at 55 mph. For gas it’s 23% less efficient (for my car that’s a drop from 427 miles to 329 miles). Clearly, for electric it’s also less efficient.
So whether we are talking about gasoline or electricity, it would probably seem reasonable for a consumer to choose the average speed and see the resulting estimated range.
But the range they discussed in the test was if it was driven 55 mph, and they were very clear and honest about this fact.
Ideally the estimated range should be based on an average speed setting by the driver.
The bottom line is really that they need more charging locations so there doesn’t need to be that much planning. It doesn’t seem to have the range of a gas powered car, but does have a very significant range that could work for many people.
I’ve put less than 3,000 miles on my present car in the 10 months I’ve had it. The longest I’ve driven in one day was 165 miles (total), and that was an entirely unnecessary pleasure trip where I could have gone any number of other places for the same fun. I could do a couple of weeks at a crack of normal driving on the range of any Tesla. And yet there’s an outlet on the pillar next to my parking spot in my apartment building’s underground garage, so it’s not like daily charging would be difficult.
what the data shows is that it was driven consistently at a certain speed for part of the time and then a reduced speed consistently for part of the time. seems to jive with the reporter’s claim that the cruise was set and later a lower speed was used to limp along. Tesla isn’t making a good case for itself when it specified low speeds and minimal climate control. They are effectively saying you can driver their sports car like you’re in a hyper-mileage competition all the while freezing your ass off.
Great. for the same amount of money you can buy a C-Max Energi that will go 600 miles on a tank of gas AND a Mustang AND another C-Max Energi just in case you didn’t like the color of the first one but was too lazy to return it.
Well, except that it only applies on long road trips. You can drive it like a sports car around town on 90%+ of typical trips.
That’s what’s annoying the fuck out of me. The constant claims* that I see on almost every board about this;
“I drive my car at 100mph, 325 miles each way to work from my shack which doesn’t have electricity, to the mud fields of Pennsylvania where I work, where there isn’t a power outlet within 50 miles! Therefore this car is completely worthless to every human on the planet!”
- This is something called ‘Hyperbole’. Please don’t display your lack of intelligence by attacking it as unrealistic or by angrily stating that no one made such a claim. The point is that people claim unusual circumstances are the rule of the day and then use that as a citation for claiming that something has no value to all or most people. Which clearly is not true.
Plenty of people could get along just fine with a Tesla, Volt, Ford Focus EV or Nissan Leaf as their daily vehicle, without ever encountering the long range issues some people insist on citing as reasons why these vehicles are useless.
To me the issue isn’t that it has a limited range, the issue is that for $100,000, that range is too variable and dependent upon factors beyond your control, like the weather.
What happens when these rechargeable batteries age? I am assuming like most rechargeable batteries that they erode in their ability to hold a full charge or even be fully charged after a couple years.
I’m even favorably disposed towards EVs, and I am glad Tesla (albeit without the fanboyism of some) and others are trying to make them a reality and I quite understand that progress is going to be made in fits and starts.
But I also know that a great way to imperil the commercial viability of EVs is to overhype their capabilities too early on when the vehicles are unable to live up to the promises.
Elon Musk as a contributor to the development of the EV = good thing. Unfortunately, he seems far more interested in establishing himself as a Prometheus-like figure than as an EV industrialist.
Where are they overhyping it?
Even on their website they talk in detail about the variables related to energy consumption, and they have a graph showing explicitly the efficiency at various speeds from about 0 to about 100mph.
Seems to me they have been very clear.
Fact, you can buy a fleet of nice cars that are not limited by an extension cord.
Nobody made that statement which makes the statement itself hperbole.
Well that’s a nice way of saying plenty of people could bend to it’s limitations and pay dearly for it. Which would explain it’s low sales numbers. Again, a person could buy 2 extended range vehicles and a sports car for the price of a Tesla. That would explain why the C-Max and Mustang do well in sales. They deliver what people want. The Tesla is a range limited toy that can’t be used for even a short day trip without specifically arranging for a recharge down time. Maybe the NYT stumbled upon a unique sales technique, a car company that will carefully map out the use of your sports car complete with instructions on how slow to drive it and what temperature control to use.
Generally you don’t dictate how a sports car is driven in a test to demonstrate it’s performance. In comparison, I give you a Ford commercial for their Mustang which gets 30 mpg on the highway. Not even a mention of it’s great fuel economy.
This is a car you can drive not just somewhere, but anywhere. You could buy this in addition to a couple of hybrids which again can be driven anywhere.
As a smitten owner of that generation of Mustang GT, I have to say that the car gets nowhere near 30mpg on the highway. It’s more like 23, and 15 in the city for a combined MPG of about 18. And that’s if you drive it like a Grandma. Most don’t.
ETA: and while you theoretically can drive it anywhere, you’d better hope that the “anywhere” you are driving doesn’t have any snow!
I’m surprised the new 6 speed V6 doesn’t get it’s rated mileage given the Crown Vic would knock out 26-28 on the highway with an automatic. But for the savings between the Tesla and the Stang you can still buy a C-Max AND a 4wd Subaru. Or you could get a C-Max and a 4wd twin turbo Taurus.
The Tesla is so limited in range and price that it narrows the niche of people willing to buy it. There aren’t that many “Jay Leno’s” running around collecting interesting cars. I’d buy one if I were ridiculously rich and had a warehouse to store cars in.
Well, I was referring to the car depicted in your commercial (which is awesome, btw) which is a last-gen 4.6L V-8 GT car. The current-gen V-6 Mustang makes almost the same power (around 300hp) as my 2008 GT car (less a decent amount of torque) and gets 19/29 mpg.
I used to own a 1996 Crown Vic LX with essentially the same engine as my Mustang (albeit in a different state of tune and configuration) and I never got better than about 23mpg on the highway. It’s just such a heavy sled of a car.
I thought I linked to the V6 Stang. Commercial must be older than I remember.
Reading this makes me wonder why they don’t have an externally-mountable generator module that you can use only when going on long trips or when you’re unsure that there will be suitable charging facilities. You wouldn’t need to have it on for most day-to-day driving, but it would be practical to be able to convert a full-electric car to a plug-in hybrid when needed. You wouldn’t need a huge gas-tank, just enough to comfortably extend the range, or at least be able to make periodic stops at gas stations in low-battery situations.
Yeah, and very few people would buy a Tesla and immediately set out on an extended road trip before familiarizing themselves with all the ins and outs of the car on more typical commutes. It seems like Tesla set themselves up for failure in lots of ways, but one of them was not letting the reporter have the car for at least a few days before the road trip. That way, not only could he get used to the car, but he’d have a chance to appreciate and enjoy the car’s (shorter range) strengths. Then, he’d at least have more to report on than the range-anxiety perspective of a driver on a long road trip in an unfamiliar car.