# Tesla Motors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 27, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941 "2009-03-27T01:23:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/121 "2009-04-08T21:31:35Z")
I was going to make a comment along the lines of “this thread probably ought to be in GD, not the Pit” but maybe not. Holy shit, what a disaster. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/122 "2009-04-08T21:36:47Z")
Cheesesteak: Yes. you are absolutely correct. It has less utility than a gasoline engine. It is also far more energy efficient than a gasoline engine. It is incidentally likely to be more efficient than any hybrid as well, because pure EVs aren’t carrying around fuel and a spare engine. Like every other choice in life, it is a tradeoff. Explain to me how this is different than buying a Prius instead of an F150? Or a Suburban instead of a diesel Rabbit? Rick: Exactly what I was thinking about your posts. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/123 "2009-04-08T21:47:07Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Especially in Chicago when it gets to -25f (which happens SOOOO often. Wind chill doesn’t affect metal). Yeah, but we average fifteen days a year when the temperature does not rize above 0F and we have gone whole months when the temperature didn’t rise above freezing. Discharge rates don’t suddenly plummet from “hunky dory” to “you ain’t goin’ nowhere” but drop in a curve from a compromise temperature (70F) at which energy density and battery life are closest to being in balance. > [@](#): > > And hey, guess what? [They are opening a dealership in Chicago](http://www.luxist.com/2007/05/03/tesla-to-electrify-chicago/) and [they work in the cold](http://www.thestar.com/article/596039). Big whip. Somebody is trying to sell expensive luxury cars to people who aren’t likely to use them as their only form of transportation. And look! The company’s owner is boasting about his cars! :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > it’s trivial to keep the batteries at a decent temperature when charging, and even when the car is just sitting if it is that cold. (looking at my open carport and remembering last winter) Trivial? > [@](#): > > Also, if you can’t understand how a hybrid that runs _completely on battery power for the first 40 miles or so_ isn’t applicable to the range of pure electric cars _with larger batteries_, I don’t think you have much to contribute anyway. Forty miles under optimal conditions. Most of the time the putt-putt is going to start up a lot earlier. Nobody here has said that that hybrids are not practical vehicles. Some have said that all-electrics are not practical for everybody. Few will deny that Teslas are wicked cool. Oh, and several people around here have Smarts and they only started using them again recently. [This](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ87pJpz4Ik&feature=related) might be why. Hell, we got nearly that much snow just the other day. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/124 "2009-04-08T22:01:14Z")
So, again, I am still waiuting for you to make a point. Even assuming you are correct about battery life dropping to 10% in weather that’s cold, keeping an insulated battery pack warm isn’t difficult. It’s a minor technological problem. What’s more, COOLING the batteries is more of a problem than warming them. These cars all have temperature control systems to keep the batteries at the right temp. Why do you INSIST that these cars MUST perform exactly the same as gasoline cars, and that they MUST be practical for every single dirver out there? I completely agree that they aren’t the same! So what? ETA: Li-Ion batteries only freeze at -40. C. It doesn’t ever get that cold in Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/125 "2009-04-08T22:40:58Z")
Actually, let me just be _absolutely_ clear about what I am asking here. For the sake of argument, assume that a BEV will be iffy in winter. Assume that the range will be far less than, say, 300 miles, like the Tesla S claims. Further, assume that there will be no way, at any time in the future, to recharge the car in less than 4 hours. Assume the battery lifetime might not be the claimed 10 years, but only 5. Assume at no point in the future will we improve battery technology. Assuming every one of these drawbacks is true, so what? I am looking for an answer like one of these: There will be no demand for these cars The car will not be useful for anyone The car will explode and kill everyone in it The car will actually not be environmentally sound The car will cost more in maintenance than it saves in energy costs The car is only for rich people There is no infrastructure to support EVs I want to know why you are so concerned with the drawbacks of an electric car. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/126 "2009-04-08T22:47:31Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Actually, let me just be _absolutely_ clear about what I am asking here. I’m not sure you are clear about anything, anywhere at any time. > [@](#): > > For the sake of argument, assume that a BEV will be iffy in winter. Assume that the range will be far less than, say, 300 miles, like the Tesla S claims. Further, assume that there will be no way, at any time in the future, to recharge the car in less than 4 hours. Assume the battery lifetime might not be the claimed 10 years, but only 5. Assume at no point in the future will we improve battery technology. > > Assuming every one of these drawbacks is true, so what? > > I am looking for an answer like one of these: > > There will be no demand for these cars > The car will not be useful for anyone > The car will explode and kill everyone in it > The car will actually not be environmentally sound > The car will cost more in maintenance than it saves in energy costs > The car is only for rich people > There is no infrastructure to support EVs > > I want to know why you are so concerned with the drawbacks of an electric car. Point me to ONE instance where any of those opinions was claimed by anyone. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/127 "2009-04-08T22:57:56Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Point me to ONE instance where any of those opinions was claimed by anyone. Holy shit. I _CAN’T_. **That is my whole fucking point!** I realize that you have concerns with the drawbacks of an electric car. My point is that regardless of the drawbacks, they are a viable choice for some, and probably many, people. What I really want to know is _why you feel such a strong need to carp and carp about these drawbacks_. **What. Is. Your. Point?** It is a simple question, and so even a simpleton like you should be able to answer it. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/128 "2009-04-09T00:26:34Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Holy shit. I _CAN’T_. **That is my whole fucking point!** Then who are you disagreeing with? You keep frothing and the mouth and screaming like we’re pissing on your dog. Everyone has basically said “we’ll believe it when we see it” in response to the Tesla article. You’ve been stomping up and down like we’re insane for thinking this. I’m at a loss to understand what you are riled about. > [@](#): > > I realize that you have concerns with the drawbacks of an electric car. > > \ > > **What. > Is. > Your. > Point?** > > It is a simple question, and so even a simpleton like you should be able to answer it. And here’s where the whole reading comprehension issue rears it’s ugly head. Do I need to spell out the irony here? ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/129 "2009-04-09T00:56:03Z")
A) “Everyone” hasn’t said that. B) If all you have to contribute is “I’ll believe it when I see it”, why have you posted so many times about your disbelief? I believe you are skeptical, fine. But why do you keep trying to hammer the point home? I knew I should have just ignored your Rush Limbaugh “All we need to do is lighten up the cars we have now, man” bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/130 "2009-04-09T01:03:04Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > A professional grade one at this point. In the future, who knows? Good point. I expect lines of tools to come around for working on the new tech. Does the scan tool for the brakes connect through the ODB-II port or a different interface? If it’s a standard port of some sort then someone’s prolly already hacking on it. There’s already a thriving underground [Prius hacking](http://news.cnet.com/2100-11389_3-6074671.html) scene. Interesting times yo. > [@](#): > > As I said upthread, you can’t call AAA and ask them to bring you a bucket of electrons. No but maybe they could give you one hell of a 35kWh jump. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/131 "2009-04-09T01:47:56Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Actually, let me just be _absolutely_ clear about what I am asking here. > > For the sake of argument, assume that a BEV will be iffy in winter. Assume that the range will be far less than, say, 300 miles, like the Tesla S claims. Further, assume that there will be no way, at any time in the future, to recharge the car in less than 4 hours. Assume the battery lifetime might not be the claimed 10 years, but only 5. Assume at no point in the future will we improve battery technology. > > Assuming every one of these drawbacks is true, so what? > > I am looking for an answer like one of these: so, what? Answer?.. Her ya go… I’m not going to quote all your questions. There will be no demand for these cars - Yep. The car will not be useful for anyone - Pretty much. The car will explode and kill everyone in it - Doubtful. The car will actually not be environmentally sound - Maybe The car will cost more in maintenance than it saves in energy costs - So what? (to use your words) The car is only for rich people - Don’t care myself. There is no infrastructure to support EVs - True. > [@ivn1188](#): > > I want to know why you are so concerned with the drawbacks of an electric car. It’s current (ha) ly pretty much useless with the tech that is available today? Is that a drawback? It is for me. Your wild eyed enthusiasum is acutally kinda cute. It will get there just don’t plan on buyin your electric Smart car for a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/132 "2009-04-09T02:00:29Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I was going to make a comment along the lines of “this thread probably ought to be in GD, not the Pit” but maybe not. > > Holy shit, what a disaster. Just for the record, as the OP, I stopped taking responsibility for this thread quite some time ago. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/133 "2009-04-09T04:04:04Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > A) “Everyone” hasn’t said that. Based on your previous abilities to determine what other peoples position is, forgive me if I take this analysis with a grain of salt. If someone wishes to contradict me themselves on lumping them in there they may. > [@](#): > > B) If all you have to contribute is “I’ll believe it when I see it”, why have you posted so many times about your disbelief? I believe you are skeptical, fine. But why do you keep trying to hammer the point home? The only thing I’m hammering is your repeated misrepresentations of mine and others statements. I made my point concisely and clearly and it’s been left at that. > [@](#): > > I knew I should have just ignored your Rush Limbaugh “All we need to do is lighten up the cars we have now, man” bullshit. Ha!! I don’t think Limbaugh has lightened a fucking thing in his entire life. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/134 "2009-04-09T04:05:24Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Just for the record, as the OP, I stopped taking responsibility for this thread quite some time ago. > 😃 The worst part about it is that I had a much more detailed opinion on your OP but by the time I’d gotten here the hijack was fully on! ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/135 "2009-04-09T05:15:18Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The worst part about it is that I had a much more detailed opinion on your OP but by the time I’d gotten here the hijack was fully on! Bullshit. Your first post in this thread was some thinly veiled screed about how electric cars were a waste of research money and if we only built more carbon fiber parts and stopped being chickenshit American dumbasses that are too concerned about 5 star safety ratings we’d solve the “foreign oil crisis”. If you had a detailed, on-topic post, why didn’t you post it? Trying to go back and rewrite things and throwing in a smiley doesn’t work when we can go back and read the thread. > [@enipla](#): > > so, what? > > Answer?.. Her ya go… I’m not going to quote all your questions. > > There will be no demand for these cars - Yep. > The car will not be useful for anyone - Pretty much. > The car will explode and kill everyone in it - Doubtful. > The car will actually not be environmentally sound - Maybe > The car will cost more in maintenance than it saves in energy costs - So what? (to use your words) > The car is only for rich people - Don’t care myself. > There is no infrastructure to support EVs - True. Well, about time. No demand? At least 4 people in this thread want to buy one. Won’t be useful? It will be useful to me, and to the 80% or more of Americans who drive less than 40 miles per day as an efficient commuter vehicle. Or for people like me, who drive less than 5 miles a day. Not environmentally sound? Make your case. No infrastructure? For battery swaps or instant recharging away from home? I’ll agree. For home plug-in commuting, we’re good to go. There’s a GQ thread on this right now. Join in. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/136 "2009-04-09T14:55:30Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > ETA: Li-Ion batteries only freeze at -40. C. I just want to point this out as the funniest statement in the whole thread. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/137 "2009-04-09T15:25:33Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > For home plug-in commuting, we’re good to go. Until a hot summer day, when an already strained electrical grid collapses under the weight of all of the electric cars. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/138 "2009-04-09T15:28:18Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Until a hot summer day, when an already strained electrical grid collapses under the weight of all of the electric cars. If people are using more electricity then obviosly the grid needs to be upgraded. California was a clusterfuck of mismanaged regulation. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/139 "2009-04-09T15:48:23Z")
Upgrading the grid, at least in output, would require more powerplants, either burning more hydrocarbons, damming more rivers, or creating more nuclear waste. What would be cool would be personal windmills. How big would one need to be to charge a Tesla? ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941/140 "2009-04-09T16:02:47Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > No it’s a matter of the infrastructure. And it’s a very real advantage of small efficient electric cars compared to this Tesla monster. The Aptera with a 10 kWh battery should take about 6 hours to charge on a standard 110V 15A outlet. So electric cars do in fact plug in to standard electrical outlets? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tesla-motors/490941.md?page=8)