But why a big 4-door 7-seat vehicle for that “first car”? Of course some people carry several children in their cars every day, but I suspect a vast majority of people just need a 2-seater (or at least a 2-door hatchback) for their “first car.”
He’s trying to compete with BMW and Mercedes, not a Prius. This thread is kind of funny in the expectation that every electric car should be ugly and marketed to green hipsters. He’s trying to tap the luxury market, and good for him, if he can make some money off of that market and stay afloat then that’s good. I hope one day to be able to afford an S. 
But I guess those of us with kids should just leave our kids at home then right?
More of a wish than an expectation.
Isn’t that what the 2nd car is for?
Seriously, would anybody buy a Tesla-S as their only car? I don’t think so, it’ll only be purchased by families who also have another car for taking the family on long distance trips. Do you really need two vehicles that can carry the whole family?
Yea I don’t get it. It’s not even like that market isn’t being tapped. For some reason the OP decided that he didn’t like the S because they put some effort into making it an enjoyable car to drive and thus it’s expensive, on par with other luxury sedans. So even though it doesn’t have anything to do with him buying a volt a prius or some other ugly ass econobox, he doesn’t like it. Very umm what’s the word? Solipsistic.
If you need to go more than 160 miles then you can get the 300 mile conversion. Except when I am driving cross country I NEVER drive more than 300 miles in a day. I made it from New York to Reno in 48 hours once but that was in a Chevy Cavalier, I wouldn’t attempt it in a Tesla S. Bottom line, most people don’t need that great distance driving capacity.
But how long do you stop in between?
The 300-mile range is with a 70 kWh battery pack. If you go on a trip, you probably won’t have access to the fancy 440-volt charging system. If you only have access to a 110V 15A outlet, it should take about 42 hours to fully recharge the battery (assuming 100% charging efficiency).
The charging efficiency thing is an issue, but that’s a matter of the limits of current technology and has little to do with it having a nice stereo leather seats and a pretty exterior.
No it’s a matter of the infrastructure. And it’s a very real advantage of small efficient electric cars compared to this Tesla monster. The Aptera with a 10 kWh battery should take about 6 hours to charge on a standard 110V 15A outlet.
Maybe you should get a job in the automotive industry, since you seem to know more about their target market than they do.
Let’s put it this way:
You see $50K luxury cars and sub-15K subcompacts – and then when you see a $50K luxury electric car, you pit them for not having a $15K electric subcompacts?
Let’s say it costs $35K to profitably mass-produce and sustain a working electric car with the range and other specs you describe. Which would you do: try to sell a subcompact that costs more than twice what its far more popular internal combustion equivalent does, but has inferior power, range, and infrastructure? Or jazz it up to $50K plus luxury options, for a car that could possibly be less than a bucket o’ regret for its (admittedly more affluent) buyer?
Yeah, pit people making a working product for not being able to make what you wish for.
Where’s the evidence that a practical sub-$15K production car is even possible? Corbin sold the Sparrow for $14K (Y2K dollars) … well, kinda: the first 100 (the “Jelly Bean” design, some of which were demos, not sold) were sub-$15K. Then the price jumped to $17K (the Pizza Butt). Then, in <2 years and <200 more cars produced, the company filed for bankruptcy.
It was NOT for lack of interest/orders. I’ve been in the market for a three-wheeler like that since the 1980s, and have seen model after model, from company after company (from startups to GM) fail to deliver the vehicles (or in many cases, even kits) for the promised MSRP without quickly going bankrupt. None even fully delivered its first year preorders.
It reminds me of Jim Bede, but if I think of his many failed vehicles and companies, I’ll cry.
I think people may be missing the obvious: if you’ve got an electric car for everyday use - commuting, the school run, etc - and need to go outside that envelope, I can simply rent a car.
Now look at the economics. At my last job, I was sending £10 / day on petrol. That’s £2500 per year. If an electric car costs me £1 / day, that’s a saving of £2250 per year. Then there’s less maintenance, lower taxes, etc. Against that saving, I need to offset the occasional vehicle rental for what the electric car cannot do. Now determine the number of years I expect to keep the car and the expected resale / trade-in value of the car at that time. From all that, I can determine how much extra is cost-effective for me to pay up front.
So far this is all they’ve released. Full “reveal” in May. But from that we can see it is not as out there as Aptera is. Maybe it will at most look a bit like this Mercedes concept did, which got Cd down to 0.19 - not quite as good as Aptera but pretty damn close - without being quite so … different. And remember, Waters, of EV1 fame, is a major force at Bright Automotive. The EV1 had a Cd of .19 too, and had seating for 4, without getting making quite the radical style statement of Aptera either. Totally conventional looking? No, neither that boxfish bionic inspired design nor the EV1 design would be called that and Bright states that “You will be able to spot a Bright Automotive vehicle on the road—its sleek aerodynamic lines not only maximize fuel efficiency but also make it attractive and unique” A bit unique I can handle. (And we will see what they mean by that in another few months.) Aptera unique I couldn’t. Not that secure I guess.
That’s a valid point, if the efficiency is so much greater. And if your need for a rental because of range issues is infrequent enough. The last couple of months, I’ve been exceeding 160 miles on a weekly basis, though this is kind of an unusual flurry of traveling for me. Today, I’m driving to Chicago and back. "That’s about 250 round trip. Since most of my family is down there, it’s a trip I do fairly regularly. I’d have to say that would be my minimum range requirement. Which in effect means 300 miles. I’m not going to drive 250 miles on a 250 mile range car and worry about the charge running down 2 miles from getting home. There needs to be a cushion.
For once, I totally agree with you.
Electric vehicles are still a niche market. It makes total sense to build them in niche segments.
Honda, GM, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes and pretty much every other major car maker are working on affordable electric cars. It’s frankly ridiculous for you to Pit Tesla just because they aren’t. Anyway, none of the big companies have been able to put together a competitive economy electric yet- what the hell makes you think Tesla could?
I would love a small 2+2 coupe which looks and drives like a Porsche 911 Turbo, but I wish I could get one for $16,000. Do you see me pitting Porsche for that?
Well, it’s a bit different for you because you’re in the UK. Electric cars do make perfect sense in Britain; just look at the G-Whiz. Here, though, the average trip is so much longer that any electric vehicle with a range of less than 300 miles is essentially useless.
Obviously, there are IC vehicles that won’t go 300 miles on a tank, but then it only takes 3 minutes to fill them up, rather than 16 hours (the charge time for the Tesla roadster).
As for pure BEVs - the issue is price point. If Tesla is throwing out this one as their move to the everyman market as opposed to their luxury roadster then they have missed the mark. But they aren’t. This is still a niche luxury sports sedan and they know it. Will it sell as a luxury commuter? Well someone buying a luxury commuter probably isn’t going on too many cross country road trips with the kids fighting in the back seat any way, and if they do they have another vehicle for that. After incentives this will price about $50K. Still more than a Mercedes C class and a Lexus GS but less than the Lexus GS hybrid. It’s not mass market but there is a group of buyers in that price range who really only want a luxury commuter that “makes a statement” about what they value. This might sell enough to keep Tesla afloat for a while more. Longer term they have plans for “Blue Star” by 2012, which they hope to price under $30K. That, after incentives, is more in everyman range.
Separate from Tesla, convincing everyman that they should buy a pure BEV commuter and rent a car if they want to drive more than 100 or so miles in a day will require a compelling cost argument - hard to make unless battery costs come so far down that these cars are cheaper than a comparable ICE commuter (like the Aveo or even the Smart car) or unless gas costs go so high that the total cost of ownership (compared to similarly small ICE commuter) makes the sale.
PHEVs and EREVs are much more likely to penetrate the market en masse first. And even with no functionality issues they will have price point concerns too.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/09/gm-dropping-volts-range-from-600-to-360-miles/ GM studies indicate that 80 % of the people travel less than 40 miles a day.
I think they need a Fiero sized 2 seater commuter car. Most people drive a big car to work and are all alone.
160 miles is plenty for the vast majority of people who live in the densely populated parts of the US like the Northeast where roughly half the population of the entire country lives.
So far the Tesla cars along with the Shelby Aero are the only electric cars that are remotely attractive in their design. At least to me. The Aptera is capitalizing on some sort of Jetsons mentality, whereas all the others are going for the hippy frugal sentimentality. Bottom line though, I’d rather be in a collision on the highway in an S than ANY of the other options.
Just read more about the Tesla S. Dang. Seats 7 with luggage (2 are kids rear facing under the hatch)? Under 6 second (5.5?!) 0-60? Sharp looking. Compare it to the price point competition: the Lexus GS. About the same acceleration. Cooler looks. Much less cost of ownership especially if gas gets back up to $4/gallon or more. And you can rent the 300 mile range pack for a moderate road trip if you want. 4 hr recharge on a 220 volt outlet. Tip the hotel bellboy to arrange for it.
For cars at that price point it blows them away. They’ll definitely sell enough to stay afloat and we’ll see what they come up with for “Blue Star” and if they can do it under $30 as they plan.
It is good looking but they definitely ripped off some styling cues from recent Maseratis.
And the Lexus GS? Sells about 20,000 units a year on average. Same as the aimed annual production run for the Tesla S. The Tesla S can be rapid charged in 45 min (with the right infrastructure) and the battery can be swapped out (in case Better Place takes off). Battery in warrantied for 7 years and is expected to cost under $5K to replace if the car outlasts it.
Frankly, this is the meme with alternative fuel/electrics that burns my biscuits. We already HAVE the infrastructure for delivery of damn near everything, including and especially fuel for vehicles, they’re called gas stations. Any smart operator in times like these would be planning to upgrade current electrical service to support plug-in vehicles, adding “lounge” space for plug-in folks to wait (and buy goodies) and setting space aside for CNG/Ethanol/Hydrogen delivery. Many stations already sell E85. If it can be done with one type of fuel, it can be done with almost any another. The creation, maintenance and growth of the logistics and supply chain isn’t rocket science and doesn’t have to be re-engineered, only plagarized and put in place.