# Tesla's Wardenclyffe tower - Could it have worked? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 18, 2007, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044 "2007-08-18T08:08:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2007, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/1 "2007-08-18T08:08:40Z")
> **[Wardenclyffe Tower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardenclyffe_Tower)** > > Wardenclyffe Tower (1901–1917), also known as the Tesla Tower, was an early experimental wireless transmission station designed and built by Nikola Tesla on Long Island in 1901–1902, located in the village of Shoreham, New York. Tesla intended to transmit messages, telephony, and even facsimile images across the Atlantic Ocean to England and to ships at sea based on his theories of using the Earth to conduct the signals. His decision to increase the scale of the facility and implement his ideas... According to Tesla this monument, if constructed, would result in: “An inexpensive instrument, not bigger than a watch, will enable its bearer to hear anywhere, on sea or land, music or song, the speech of a political leader, the address of an eminent man of science, or the sermon of an eloquent clergyman, delivered in some other place, however distant. In the same manner any picture, character, drawing, or print can be transferred from one to another place.” I don’t now anything about electricity. Could the tower had worked anywhere near this effective? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2007, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/2 "2007-08-18T09:40:45Z")
I’ve read reliable accounts of people being able to “hear” microwave transmissions and that properly modulated microwave signals can allow a person to “hear” speech that is being transmitted to them. Apparently, the microwaves directly bypass the auditory nerve and act directly upon the brain. No idea if this is what Tesla was working on, but it seems possible. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2007, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/3 "2007-08-18T12:32:16Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] I’ve read reliable accounts of people being able to “hear” microwave transmissions and that properly modulated microwave signals can allow a person to “hear” speech that is being transmitted to them. Apparently, the microwaves directly bypass the auditory nerve and act directly upon the brain. [/QUOTE] Cite??? In any event, Telsa’s work wasn’t even radio (microwave signals are high frequency radio waves). He was working with much, much lower frequencies. Uncle Cecil talks about Tesla at [What’s up with “broadcast power”?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_274.html) – suffice it to say that Tesla was even more vague about how he planned to transmit and receive audio than he was about the failed wireless power project. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2007, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/4 "2007-08-18T13:42:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Could it have worked? Very doubtful. At least as far as wireless power is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/5 "2007-08-18T14:03:12Z")
Sounds like he’s describing a radio or TV. A central transmitter & small receiver devices. Nothing was said about people hearing the audio directly in their head. IMHO Tesla in general was 10% genius & 90% BS. He really had no clue how little he knew. IN his defense, neither did anyone else of the era. We can build (& have built) very low frequency transmitters that send receivable signals planet-wide. The inherent limitation on information rate (Shannon’s law [Claude Shannon - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Elwood_Shannon)) means you can’t transmit video or even audio at those frequencies. And the power levels are such that your reciever needs a power source, but nothing more exotic than a battery. A lot of Tesla’s ideas had to do with transmitting not only information but power as well. And in that he was Lost in Space. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2007, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/6 "2007-08-18T19:41:40Z")
[QUOTE=whitetho] Cite??? [/QUOTE] [ > [@Wiki](#): > > The microwave auditory effect, also known as the microwave hearing effect or the Frey effect, consists of audible clicks induced by pulsed/modulated microwave frequencies that are generated directly inside the human head without the need of any receiving electronic device. The effect was first reported by persons working in the vicinity of radar transponders during World War II. ]([Microwave auditory effect - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect)) > [@](#): > > Later, signal modulation was found to produce sounds or words that appeared to originate intracranially. It was studied for its possible use in communications but has not been developed due to the possible hazardous biological effects of microwave radiation. Similar research conducted in the USSR studied its use in non-lethal weaponry. PDF paper from IEEE describing it can be found [here.](http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/6668/21676/01004049.pdf?arnumber=1004049) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2007, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/7 "2007-08-18T20:24:07Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] [ PDF paper from IEEE describing it can be found [url=“[http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/6668/21676/01004049.pdf?arnumber=1004049](http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/6668/21676/01004049.pdf?arnumber=1004049)”]here.]([Microwave auditory effect - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect)) [/QUOTE] So the voices in my head are real? I KNEW it! ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2007, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/8 "2007-08-18T21:54:40Z")
I don’t know how Tesla proposed to modulate his carrier wave. AM broadcasts made at the frequency he was using, would have penetrated the earth. All you would need to pick up the signal would be an antenna, a grouns, and a detetor (of some sort). Frankly, I’m amazed that JP Morgan finaced this venture (the tower) without demanding to know how the receivers would work. In any case, at the low frequency Tesla was using, your information transfer rate wuld have been pretty slow. As it were, JP Morgan pulled out before the tower was finished, and so nobody knows if it would have worked or not. This is the basic problem with Tesla-big claims, but little actual performance. His achievements in AC transmission are solid-but this work took place before 1900-after that, his claims become pretty wild. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/9 "2007-08-19T01:03:46Z")
It’s pretty much an infallible rule that if you ask whether something of Tesla’s \*could \* have worked, the answer is no. The things that could work he got to work. The things he and his acolytes make claims for, but never got to work, however, could never have worked. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/10 "2023-11-30T13:34:29Z")
> Back in 2012, a [crowdfunding effort](https://www.npr.org/2012/08/24/159925435/zap-cartoonist-raises-1-million-for-tesla-museum) on Indigogo [successfully raised](http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/21/tech/innovation/tesla-museum-campaign/index.html) the funds necessary to purchase the [Wardenclyffe Tower site](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardenclyffe_Tower) on Long Island, New York, where Serbian inventor [Nikola Tesla](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla) once tried to build an ambitious wireless transmission station. The goal was to raise additional funds to build a $20 million [Tesla Science Center](https://teslasciencecenter.org) there, with a museum, an educational center, and a technological innovation program. The [nonprofit group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Science_Center_at_Wardenclyffe) behind the project finally broke ground this April after years of basic restoration work—only to experience a devastating setback last week, two days before Thanksgiving, when a fire broke out. > **[Nikola Tesla’s historic Wardenclyffe lab site at risk after devastating fire](https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/11/nikola-teslas-historic-wardenclyffe-lab-site-at-risk-after-devastating-fire/)** > > The crowdfunded Tesla Science Center has launched a new fundraiser to repair the damage. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/11 "2023-11-30T20:09:31Z")
That sucks. I don’t know quite what they expected to do with it yet I remember when [The Oatmeall](https://theoatmeal.com/) had a terrific serial about how great and unrecognized (okay - having a unit of flux density named for you is pretty cool) Tesla was and how Wardenclyffe was just some forgotten fenced-off site in Shoreham near where one of the worst power companies ever - LILCO - built an unused six billion dollar nuclear power plant. I suspect some acolytes of Thomas Edison were behind this. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/12 "2023-12-02T07:46:34Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The things he and his acolytes make claims for, but never got to work, however, could never have worked. (I realize this is ancient, but…) There’s a third category of things, which is those devices that _did_ work but weren’t particularly good and/or had such limited scope that they never took off and changed the world. The [Tesla turbine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_turbine) and [Tesla valve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_valve) are two examples of this. The turbine was too hard to make efficient and is only useful in very specific applications. The Tesla valve is leaky, and leaky check valves aren’t super interesting in most cases. They worked, in a sense–they just weren’t practical. But Wardenclyffe never could have worked, at all. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/13 "2023-12-02T15:11:57Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > had a terrific serial about how great and unrecognized (okay - having a unit of flux density named for you is pretty cool) Getting a unit named for him was part of a push in the post-war era by scientists to get Tesla proper recognition for his contributions. In some respects, it worked too well. Wardenclyffe would never have done what Tesla hoped - transmitted large amounts of usable electrical power over long distances. Or even come close. We have a much better idea of how that works today, and what we have worked out is efficient short distance wireless transmission of low amounts of power (for example, induction charging of our mobile devices) rather than large distance wireless transmission of high amounts of power. It’s not a absolute rule, but pretty much anything Tesla worked on after the turn of the 20th century should be examined critically. Guess which side of that line Wardenclyffe falls on? It’s not that shocking. All but a small handful of scientists and inventors do their best work before they hit 40 and he was already pushing 50 at that point. It’s human nature but we overcorrected in terms of his reputation. Some folks (the good folks at the Oatmeal being one example) now give Tesla perhaps too much credit, even for ideas like Wardenclyffe that were never going to work. > [@Coriolanus](#): > > I suspect some acolytes of Thomas Edison were behind this. This is partly true but also somewhat overblown today. As above, it’s human nature. It’s not enough Tesla was a brilliant inventor, apparently he must have a comic book hero story complete with evil arch-nemesis. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/14 "2023-12-03T20:42:00Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > evil arch-nemesis. His benefactor - particularly for Wardenclyffe and the whole idea of transmitting power through the planet - was the super evil JP Morgan. Of course his true nemesis was TA Edison who made and distributed lots of films exhibiting how diabolical Alternate Current electricity - which Tesla had some crazy idea was bettter than Direct Current - kills animals. In the UK there are two kinds of ways to connect light bulbs to sockets. The typical kind which is used throughout the USA and everywhere else I’ve been - is called here the “Edison Screw” and the other kind is called “bayonet”. I avoid the Edison screw whenever I can. It’s also very humourous that JP Morgan Chase is suing Elon Musk’s Tesla. Can they both lose somehow, please? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-could-it-have-worked/416044/15 "2023-12-04T03:56:48Z")
Yup, precisely the point. We like making stories with clear ‘good guys’ and ‘bad guys’ but it’s pretty rare for it to be truly that cut and dried in real life. As for AC/DC, they were both right and both wrong. But AC was, at the time, easier/cheaper to use for long distance distribution, which is why it won out.