BLUEPONY; just wondering. How many times have you administerd a field test( stand on one leg, recite the alphabet backwards, count backwards from 73, etc.) and received the reply, " Hey, I couldn’t do that even if I WAS sober"? BTW how do you fel about all those cop reality shows/
" Pardon me while I have a strange interlude."-Marx (Melissa Gilbert is in the rest room right now or she would have a snappy comeback)
[[First, in order to be pulled over, your friend must have committed some sort of vehicular goof that attracted the attention of the cop.]] DIF
Not necessarily, of course. Cops sometimes stop people for no good reason, either not liking their looks or simply out of boredom (and then there are roadblocks).
[[So, out come the ‘field sobriety tests’ for coordination, balance, etc. The breath test comes last simply, I would say, for convenience and practicality. ]]
Juries love “scientific” tests and numbers.
[[When your friend gets to court, the fact that he passed the physical tests should count somewhat in his favor (assuming the cop recorded the results fairly). What matters now is, how good an attorney will your friend have?]]
Yup.
[[As for refusing – ask any decent attorney, and I’m sure he’d tell you to take the test and leave it to him/her to have it ruled inadmissible, if at all possible. ]]
Wrong-o! Always refuse the test if you think there is any possibility that you might fail (i.e., if you have had anything more than one drink).
[[Refusing the test will do no good; the officer will only testify that he smelled liquor on your breath anyway and that will usually be enough for most judges to find you guilty, along with the testimony about whatever traffic violation you allegedly committed.]]
Wrong. If you fail the breathalyzer (as opposed to refusing it) you are MUCH more likely to be convicted. Juries love to see supposedly objective evidence of intoxication.
[[ Even if you’re not found guilty, isn’t the whole idea to NOT lose your license?]]
A DUI conviction involves a lot more than simply losing your license for a while.
The comments about the contribution of the traffic offense / driving behavior that brought about police attention, to any subsequent DUI proceedings, remind me of what was the only time I remember of having been given a sobriety test. I was driving along Woodside Road in Redwood City, CA, US in the evening and pulled over near the non-curb several times to see if there was a drinking fountain – H2O, that is – at a service station or Foster’s Freeze in the area. I had no alcohol in my system and don’t have much interest in the stuff, and I had no medical problem that would affect coordination.
Of course, I had no trouble passing the line-walk and eye-following tests and it was a time before portable breath-o-lyzers. As I recall, the cop even told me where a drinking fountain was – probably to see if I was really interested in such. I was and I used it. I don’t remcall – I probably was returning from an overlong hike in the Santa Cruz mountains. I have sometimes abused that recreation of mine. Actually, the cop was probably just suspicious of what I was up to in pulling over several times and had to do something to try to stir up whatever might’ve been going on.
Ray (98% water)
Mr. John,
That’s happened to me before, but not very many times. First off, the field sobriety tests are not designed for Jeopardy contestants or Olympic gymnasts, they are what the US Dept of Transportation feels that any average person can do. I’m not going to speak for what all cops would do at that point. If someone insisted on that fact that “I couldn’t do that (those tests) even if I was sober.”, that’s fine since I can just go ahead and take out Mr. Penlight and give the eyes (that fantastic mirror of the soul) the horizontal-gaze nystagmus test. That requires absolutely no outstanding mental or physical requirements whatsoever. Also you have just made an interesting statement to a police officer as to your sobriety (if I am not sober now, then…). A * spontaneous * admission of guilt before an advisement of rights doesn’t do much for the driver’s case (we use videos too) and definitely cuts through my paperwork. And you’ll still be asked for a breath sample anyway. In other words, the FST is good to have but not necessary for a DUI conviction.
On the subject of reality-based cop shows on TV, I really don’t watch them. I don’t know what you do for a living, but wouldn’t you hate coming home and watching a show about what you just did for 8-10 hours? My wife is also a cop, so that guarantees we watch nothing like * America’s Most Wanted, LAPD, or Cops *. Now ask me about * X-Files, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or South Park *. That’s about all the reality I want to watch after work. 
“…send lawyers, guns, and money…”
Warren Zevon“Wrong-o! Always refuse the test if you think there is any possibility
that you might fail (i.e., if you have had anything more than one
drink).”
This is NO longer the case. If you refuse & later don’t pass the pee/blood test, not only are you charged with DUI but also charged for refusing the test. I forgot what it’s called.
Also, take heart the cops can pull you down and take blood from you without your consent, at least in Calif.
Whatever, refuse the blood test at the station, whatever it takes, its the most accurate and it shows drugs too, which you can also be charged with again, this time, DUI with drugs in your system.
NanoByte:
Similar thing happened to me. I was driving on US 93 from Arizona into Nevada over Hoover Dam, and my wife and I, when we travel, we like to get pictures of the “Welcome to” signs for each state we enter. We kept veering to the right to see if there was a sign to take a picture of. A cop noticed us and pulled us over, but he was pretty easily satisfied with our sobriety. Then he said something to really sober us up…that there’s an average of 3 fatal accidents a week there. I don’t know if this is an exaggeration, but considering how twisty the road was, I’m inclined to believe it.
Chaim Mattis Keller
ckeller@schicktech.com
“Sherlock Holmes once said that once you have eliminated the
impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be
the answer. I, however, do not like to eliminate the impossible.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity to it that the merely improbable lacks.”
– Douglas Adams’s Dirk Gently, Holistic Detective
Bluepony,a city cop used to live three houses down, we didn’t talk much cop stuff but he used to tell me some of the more humorous and ineresting things that had happened.A few times some guy would make one of those spontanious confessions with out knowing it.One time some guy was told to do something ,he had already been arguing that he ‘only had one’, then he says "tell me that again, I had way too much too drink and can’t concentrate.BTW Every one should have a cop as a neighbor,he pretty much minded his own business in the neighborhood, we all left him alone as far as piddly ass stuff went. But having that car parked in his driveway kept every thing nice and quiet, calm, and peaceful. And 4th of july was great. He spent hundreds on fire works and shot um off in the street.
Back to the thread I was stopped for a DUI once they had me dead to rights ( Shouldna been driving at all Damn tequilla.) Two in the morning, I had driven less than a block and decided I better pull over when I saw the flashing lights. I pulled over got out, stood by the truck with my arms out palms up.Wasn’t any point in arguing.They didn’t give me any field test at all. Amazingly enough I was only .01 over the limit, their machine musta been screwed up 'cause I was WAY over that.As one the station house cops was feeling all along my hat I said, “Don’t worry about that your not gonna find anything.” He said "Oh? Guess what we found in your vest?"I knew I wasn’t carrying any thing so I just asked ,"What?"He and the other cop(she was WAY prettier ) just laughed. The next afternoon when I went to get my pickup outa the pound, I looked down on the floor board and thought “Oops, I gotta keep this thing neater.” There were several, well a lot, of these funny looking little cigarette butts on the floor.Either they didn’t see um or just said “ah forget it.” ( Gotta similar tale 'bout a friend of mine buy I’ll wait)
" Pardon me while I have a strange interlude."-Marx (Melissa Gilbert is in the rest room right now or she would have a snappy comeback)
In case any of you are driving north of 49:
a. a police officer in Canada can make random checks. Canadian courts have not adopted either the “reasonable cause” standard, or the “articulable cause” standard used in the U.S.
b. under the Criminal Code of Canada (federal law, uniform throughout the country), there are two offences: driving while impaired, and driving with a BAC greater than .08. So, even if you refuse the test or the results are thrown out, you may be convicted on impaired driving.
c. there is also an offence of refusing to give a sample, and the penalties are exactly the same as for .08/impaired driving. Plus, it’s easier to prove a refusal than a .08, since you can’t make all the technical challenges to the validity of the tests that DIF points out. It just depends on the testimony of the officers/breath techs.
d. there is also the offence of “care and control while impaired,” with exactly the same penalties as .08/impaired. Proof that you are in the driver’s seat is proof of care and control, so yes, if you are going to sleep it off, get into the back seat.
e. under provincial law, your licence can be suspended for a short period (typically 24 hours), if the officer believes you pose a danger to the public (I’m paraphrasing; different provinces define it differently), even if you don’t reach the .08 level.
In another legal course, the instructor, another lawyer, told us a few stories about his cross-examination of policemen when representing his clients in court. (The lawyer was a cop himself for a few years.) Occasionally the cop doesn’t show up in court; they don’t fail to show up often, however; judges and police sergenants don’t like that.
And he told of his direct questioning of his client.
Lawyer: "What did the officer say when you told him which kind of test [blood/breath/urine] you preferred to take?
Client: "He told me to go sit in the corner and shut up.
Did you ever see a prosecutor CRY??
Sorry about that…I misspelled “sergeants” and omitted quotes at the end of the lawyer’s and client’s statements.
This is not a direct answer to your question, but here’s an article that has some interesting stats on drunk driving and sobriety tests:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/1685/ddd.html
[[“Wrong-o! Always refuse the test if you think there is any possibility
that you might fail (i.e., if you have had anything more than one
drink).”
This is NO longer the case. If you refuse & later don’t pass the pee/blood test, not only are you charged with DUI but also charged for refusing the test. I forgot what it’s called.]] Handy
Yes, it is a separate offense (fairly minor) in these parts (New England) to refuse a breathalyzer (automoatic suspension, usually 6-9 months) – however, I don’t think they are allowed to take your blood either without your consent.
[[Also, take heart the cops can pull you down and take blood from you without your consent, at least in Calif.]]
Huh – has that been litigated in a DUI context?
[[Whatever, refuse the blood test at the station, whatever it takes, its the most accurate and it shows drugs too, which you can also be charged with again, this time, DUI with drugs in your system.]]
I thought you said they didn’t need your consent.