# Texans first, Americans second?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 15, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899 "2009-02-15T02:16:56Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/81 "2009-02-16T15:38:12Z")
> [@WordMan](#):
>
> While some folks have mentioned football and the Cowboys in particular, I am surprised that no one has focused on that. The Cowboys since Jerry Jones took over have been a big media circus and now they are a joke - and since Texas places a lot of weight on football, I wonder if that contributes to the national POV on Texas Pride. They did great in the first-gen Jones era with The Triplets (Aikman, Smith, Irvin) even though Irvin was a rock-head. But now they just come across as completely into themselves and trying to get attention but without much substance to back them up.
When I moved to DFW, I turned on the TV one Saturday morning. There was a football highlights show and I was half-watching it while on the phone. Ah, there’s Texas Stadium, home of the belurved Boys. 50 yard field goal.
Um. Wait. I don’t know these teams. This is…Saturday morning…? Not pro. College? No… **High school**. Some high school teams play at Texas Stadium? I don’t know if that was in the middle geographically or if it was a big game, but sure enough.
The highlight reels are high in production values. They merit play on local TV stations on Saturday morning. I can fully believe “Friday Night Lights” is accurate for places like Permian in Odessa.
A woman I know was telling me about her boy (9) who loves baseball. She said she just couldn’t afford it. The school expects the team to go to all sorts of camps if they really want to be on the team. Maybe they aren’t required, but when all the other gung-ho parents put their kids through all that, his skill level and conditioning are bound to lag behind.
If that’s how they feel about baseball, I can only imagine the demands they make for football. How else do you explain 50 yard field goals in high school?
---
### Author:  [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/82 "2009-02-16T15:45:01Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#):
>
> When I moved to DFW, I turned on the TV one Saturday morning. There was a football highlights show and I was half-watching it while on the phone. Ah, there’s Texas Stadium, home of the belurved Boys. 50 yard field goal.
>
> Um. Wait. I don’t know these teams. This is…Saturday morning…? Not pro. College? No… **High school**. Some high school teams play at Texas Stadium? I don’t know if that was in the middle geographically or if it was a big game, but sure enough.
>
> The highlight reels are high in production values. They merit play on local TV stations on Saturday morning. I can fully believe “Friday Night Lights” is accurate for places like Permian in Odessa.
>
> A woman I know was telling me about her boy (9) who loves baseball. She said she just couldn’t afford it. The school expects the team to go to all sorts of camps if they really want to be on the team. Maybe they aren’t required, but when all the other gung-ho parents put their kids through all that, his skill level and conditioning are bound to lag behind.
>
> If that’s how they feel about baseball, I can only imagine the demands they make for football. How else do you explain 50 yard field goals in high school?
Most likely the playoffs. They a set of games in the opening week generally (Tom Landry Classic), then generally rent it out for playoff games in November / December. My school had a few out there and it’s pretty sweet (except for a couple of blown calls :mad: that kept us out of State). Last year, they sold out the stadium for a second round playoff matchup between the two reigning champs.
And to hit 50 yard field goals, you get a soccer star, put him in pads, get some wind at his back, and have everything else work well 😃
---
### Author:  [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/83 "2009-02-16T15:59:30Z")
As a native Austinite, I’d rank myself as:
1. Austinite
2. Texan
3. American
Not to the point of secession mind you (although I did have a [Secede](http://www.texassecede.com/faq.asp) bumper sticker on my car in high school (speaking of bumper stickers, those “I wasn’t born in Texas but I got here as fast as I could” ones truely piss me off. What makes you think we want you here?)). When traveling and asked where I’m from I just say Austin.
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### Author:  [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/84 "2009-02-16T16:00:14Z")
> [@WordMan](#):
>
> While some folks have mentioned football and the Cowboys in particular, I am surprised that no one has focused on that. The Cowboys since Jerry Jones took over have been a big media circus and now they are a joke - and since Texas places a lot of weight on football, I wonder if that contributes to the national POV on Texas Pride. They did great in the first-gen Jones era with The Triplets (Aikman, Smith, Irvin) even though Irvin was a rock-head. But now they just come across as completely into themselves and trying to get attention but without much substance to back them up . . . Oh, and add to that the “Jessica Simpson as a Dallas Blonde” part of it, too (she was featured as the ultimate Dallas Blonde in a Texas magazine while I was staying there a few months ago…) - again, not the best representative for having substance to go with the style…
You seem to be fixated with Dallas. Fuck Dallas. 😛
Also, could we give that phrase “all hat and no cattle” a rest? I have never heard that coming from a Texan in all my life.
---
### Author:  [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/85 "2009-02-16T16:03:14Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#):
>
> Most likely the playoffs. They a set of games in the opening week generally (Tom Landry Classic), then generally rent it out for playoff games in November / December. My school had a few out there and it’s pretty sweet (except for a couple of blown calls :mad: that kept us out of State). Last year, they sold out the stadium for a second round playoff matchup between the two reigning champs.
>
> And to hit 50 yard field goals, you get a soccer star, put him in pads, get some wind at his back, and have everything else work well 😃
Wow. Wikipedia says it holds 65,675. Sold out for a high school game…
---
### Author:  [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/86 "2009-02-16T16:19:36Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#):
>
> …snip…
>
> So what’s the real deal? Is this a mindset held by many mainstream residents of the Lone Star State? **Lynn Bodoni** , other Texas dopers, can you provide some more informed opinions about this? I always knew Texans were ‘different’, but are they really that different?
**Qadgop** , I think you got your chain yanked a little.
I’m a native Texan. Born and raised in Houston, lived in several foreign countries (Australia, Singapore, Indonesia, the People’s Republic of Austin, etc.) (BTW, that’s a little local humor about Austin :D), and I have to admit I’m proud to be a Texan. Yeah, we’re the biggest and the bestest and all that hoohah, but the truth is that we have a very unique history and we’re proud of it.
Are we going to secede? Well, we tried that once and it didn’t work, so I don’t think it’s a viable option. We sure do like to joke with folks about it, though. I’ve run some tall tales on people about the possibility of Texas secession and thoroughly enjoyed doing it.
Bottom line is that we’re just folks like everyone else.
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/87 "2009-02-16T21:04:32Z")
> [@Koxinga](#):
>
> You seem to be fixated with Dallas. Fuck Dallas. 😛
Ah - there you go. Got it.
> [@Koxinga](#):
>
> Also, could we give that phrase “all hat and no cattle” a rest? I have never heard that coming from a Texan in all my life.
Not lovin’ my post, eh? The phrase seemed appropriate given the point I was trying to make, used by Texans themselves or not…
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### Author:  [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/88 "2009-02-16T21:29:22Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#):
>
> Wow. Wikipedia says it holds 65,675. Sold out for a high school game…
Official attendance is lower, but the lots weren’t open enough, and people were still entering at official stat time at the start of the second half. Those in the know say capacity. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCeT-QYF750](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCeT-QYF750)
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### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/89 "2009-02-16T21:46:50Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#):
>
> I’m glad you mentioned Austin. It reminded me that this couple was dead against Austin and anything/anyone from there. They spoke of it as disdainfully as McCarthyites spoke of Moscow. And they made no bones about how the “wrong sort of people” lived there.
Mystery solved. They were Aggies.
Seriously, they were either yanking your chain or nuts, or both. The only people who seriously talk about Texas’ “right to secede” are those “[Republic of Texas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas_(group))” loons.
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### Author:  [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/90 "2009-02-16T23:16:10Z")
> [@pravnik](#):
>
> Mystery solved. They were Aggies.
>
> Seriously, they were either yanking your chain or nuts, or both. The only people who seriously talk about Texas’ “right to secede” are those “[Republic of Texas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas_(group))” loons.
Aggies could warrant a few threads on their own. Interesting folks, some of them.
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/91 "2009-02-16T23:23:01Z")
> [@Clothahump](#):
>
> **Qadgop** , I think you got your chain yanked a little.
As noted earlier, I don’t think so. My BS meter is pretty good, given my profession.
They kept up this schtick for 5 days, while drunk, drunker, hung over, and less drunk.
They never mentioned college football, or colleges either. They took pride in that they had dragged themselves up from the primordial ooze and felt that others should be able to do the same. They lived near Odessa, and complained that every time they drilled for water, they hit oil. They did declare that, like all _real_ Texans, they were libertarians.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/92 "2009-02-16T23:24:54Z")
It seems to me that pretty much all the “facts” offered to propose a factual difference between Texas and other states don’t hold up to close examination. The issue seems to be that Texas pride is not based on any factual uniqueness, but rather a societal or cultural attitude that is applied to such “facts.”
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### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/93 "2009-02-17T00:38:36Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#):
>
> They kept up this schtick for 5 days, while drunk, drunker, hung over, and less drunk.
>
> They never mentioned college football, or colleges either. They took pride in that they had dragged themselves up from the primordial ooze and felt that others should be able to do the same. They lived near Odessa, and complained that every time they drilled for water, they hit oil. They did declare that, like all _real_ Texans, they were libertarians.
Clearly, they were delusional and insane from the rigors of life near Odessa. The behavior you describe are classic manifestations of the illness we refer to as _Texolalia_, the inability to shut up about Texas, even around other Texans. In an emergency, symptoms may be temporarily allieviated with the oral administration of 300 cc’s of Lone Star beer and a redirection of the conversation towards the relative strengths and weaknesses of Jimmy Johnson and Tom Landry.
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### Author:  [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/94 "2009-02-17T00:58:59Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#):
>
> A lot has changed here since 1964. Speaking of moronic politicians–you now live in Florida?
When I am engaged in Texas bashing, I try to always be specific regarding the time period in which my opinions were formed. When you say that things have changed in Texas since 1964, am I to assume they have changed for the better? If so, that lends credence to my opinions of the place since those opinions date back to the time in question. In any case, I have so many bad memories of the place that I will not be returning there.
I live in Florida for reasons that have nothing to do with politics or politicians.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Woo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Woo)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/95 "2009-02-17T02:04:20Z")
> [@Ruken](#):
>
> There is a pledge of allegiance to Texas, which is recited sometimes. I’m not sure where though. I never heard it when I was in El Paso, but EP isn’t a very Texasey place. Anyone know how common it is to recite the TX PoA? Compared to other states, assuming they even have one? I found it odd that it even existed, but maybe they’re common.
I came in here to mention that. My sister, who lives in Austin, had to get pissy with the school to excuse my nephews from reciting the pledge of allegiance\* to Texas. Apparently it’s not all that hard to get the kids excused, but I may be underestimating my sister’s capacity for pissy.
I was wondering the same thing: do other states even have pledges of allegiance?
- Sisty says her childrens’ allegiance are to their family and their country, period.
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### Author:  [@Psiharis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psiharis)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2009, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/96 "2009-02-17T06:59:34Z")
I was born in California and didn’t come to Texas until I was 4 (and then left again when I was 10), but I still feel like it’s home. It’s also the one place I’ve spent the most consecutive years in my life, but that’s another story…
Yes, there is indeed a pledge of allegiance to the Texas flag, and I remember it to this day. I grew up reciting it every morning in school in an affluent Houston suburb. It was recited _before_ the US Pledge of Allegiance. I went through a phase where I decided I didn’t like Texas very much and would silently mouth ‘California’ (a state I did not remember at all and grew to loathe when we moved back there), but it was never a big deal, just a tradition. Texas likes tradition.
There is Texas-shaped pasta (which makes the best tuna noodle casserole), the hotels have Texas-shaped waffle irons at their continental breakfasts, and I knew a lot of people who skipped caucusing during the primaries to go to the rodeo instead. This includes my liberal, gay hairdresser. 🙂
I’ve lived in a lot of places and Texas really is unique, but ‘serious’ secessionists are a rare breed. Having grown up around and later worked with oil field roughnecks, who are about as Texan as you can get without riding a horse to work, I think many of them agree that in theory Texas should have been allowed to secede – but on the other hand, acknowledge the wisdom that the first thing to do when you find yerself at the bottom of a hole is to _stop digging_. A little recreational outrage at the way things went does not preclude the sheepish admission that it probably worked out for the best.
I think you would have an easier time finding crazy independence-obsessed Quebecois than Texans any day.
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### Author:  [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2009, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/97 "2009-02-17T08:52:56Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I knew a lot of people who skipped caucusing during the primaries to go to the rodeo instead. This includes my liberal, gay hairdresser.
Oh, there’s quite a gay cowboy subculture going on here. Some of the gays like cowboys, and some of the cowboys are gay. There’s also (or at least, there was) a completely gay rodeo, from what I’ve read.
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### Author:  [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2009, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/98 "2009-02-17T08:56:14Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#):
>
> Oh, there’s quite a gay cowboy subculture going on here. Some of the gays like cowboys, and some of the cowboys are gay. There’s also (or at least, there was) a completely gay rodeo, from what I’ve read.
In my adolescent years, I would also have described most cowboys and rodeos as “completely gay”.
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### Author:  [@Yarster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yarster)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/99 "2009-02-18T00:54:11Z")
Having attended the University of Texas at Austin for business school and had the pleasure of living in Austin for two years…having lived in California the whole rest of my life…the state pride is very obvious.
In our marketing classes, I remember people joking that the three easiest ways to sell anything in the state was 1) throw a ‘my’ in front of it (‘My HEB (market)’ and ‘My Wallmart’ were huge) 2) put a state of Texas outline around your corporate logo and most important of all 3) imply that you are a bad Texan if you don’t buy the company’s products.
Strategies two and three above were used to heavily pitch Shiner Bock beer, which I’ve never seen anyone drinking outside of Texas (which I’m sure will now result in several people in Guam chiming in to tell me how that’s ALL they drink):rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/100 "2009-02-18T01:36:00Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#):
>
> The Mrs. and I were recently staying at a resort where we encountered another couple, who within minutes of meeting anyone new, quickly made sure that it was known that they were Texans (an odd behavior I’d previously only noted in Harvard grads).
>
> While that was somewhat odd, what struck the two of us, and most of the other folks we talked to later about it, was their assertion that they were Texans first, and Americans second.
I can’t explain why-I have been in Texas before and it looks just like any other flat/dry/hot spot on the globe I have been-but I know a very accomplished Air Force pilot who proudly tells people that he made sure there was a pan of genuine Texas dirt underneath the bed of his wife when she gave birth so that his children could be born in Texas. Texas certainly does have a certain mystique. A lot like living in California.
So, no accounting for tastes.
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