# Texans first, Americans second?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 15, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899 "2009-02-15T02:16:56Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/121 "2009-02-19T12:36:41Z")
I heard Texas once had the ability to split itself into five separate states. That’s pretty fucking cool living in a state that can break apart and attack you like Voltron!
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/122 "2009-02-19T14:28:27Z")
Moving penis-size contest from IMHO to Great Debates.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/123 "2009-02-19T14:35:45Z")
> [@Koxinga](#):
>
> I believe you’re from _Virginia_, aren’t you? Dude, are you for real?
>
> ETA, not that there’s anything wrong with being from Virginia, but boo hooing about a secessionist attitude while residing in the spearhead of the frakkin’ Confederacy? Gotta be a joke, unless it’s serious and one of those “lady doth protest too much” things . . .
Unless it’s Northern Virginia, which is basically a completely different state.
---
### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/124 "2009-02-19T14:53:59Z")
> [@2ply](#):
>
> [Snopes says that’s a myth](http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texasflag.asp).
Holy crap! In my experience, this myth is “common knowledge” here in Texas!
Lately I’ve pulled the old “Actually, according to the Internet…” on my Mother in Law. I’ve been trying to refrain since I’m sure it got annoying, but this… this is big!
And boy will it piss her off. 😉
-FrL-
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/125 "2009-02-19T14:54:08Z")
:mad: Texas wants to **secede?!** By Og, we’ll . . . we’ll . . .
Hmmmmmm . . .
(Psssst! Do you guys think you could talk Oklahoma into going with you?)
---
### Author:  [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/126 "2009-02-19T14:56:05Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> I heard Texas once had the ability to split itself into five separate states. That’s pretty fucking cool living in a state that can break apart and attack you like Voltron!
We used to, but there was really no chance of it ever happening. As Mr. Snopes points out:
> [@](#):
>
> Although the provisions of the Texas Annexation document allowing for the creation of four additional states are popularly regarded as a unique curiosity today, they were largely superfluous. Article IV, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution already specifically provided for the formation of new states through the junction or division of existing states:
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress.
And Mr. Snopes also lays to rest the concept of Texas having the right to secede:
> [@](#):
>
> Another Texas-related legend holds that the Texans negotiated an annexation treaty which reserved to them the right to secede from the Union without the consent of the U.S. Congress, but the terms of Texas’ annexation contain no such provision.
> **[Can Texas Divide Itself into Five Separate States?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-great-divide/)**
>
> There was some interesting debate around the Texas Annexation.
However, suppose that Texas _could_ secede. What would happen if we did?
1. NASA is just south of Houston, Texas . We will control the space industry.
2. We refine over 85% of the gasoline in the United States .
3. Defense Industry–we have over 65% of it. The term “Don’t mess
with Texas ,” will take on a whole new meaning.
4. Oil - we can supply all the oil that the Republic of Texas will
need for the next 300 years. Yankee states? Sorry about that.
5. Natural Gas - again we have all we need and it’s too bad about
those Northern States. John Kerry will have to figure out a way to
keep them warm….
6. Computer Industry - we currently lead the nation in producing
computer chips and communications–small companies like Texas
Instruments, Dell Computer, EDS, Raytheon, National Semiconductor,
Motorola, Intel, AMD, Atmel, Applied Materials, Ball Miconductor,
Dallas Semiconductor, Delphi , Nortel, Alcatel, etc, etc. The list
goes on and on.
7. Medical Care - We have the largest research centers for cancer
research, the best burn centers and the top trauma units in the world,
as well as other large health centers. Dallas has some of the best
hospitals in the United States .
8. We have enough colleges to keep us going: University of Texas ,
Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rice, SMU, University of Houston , Baylor, UNT
( University of North Texas ), Texas Women’s University, etc. Ivy
grows better in the South anyway.
9. We have a ready supply of workers. We could just open the border
when we need some more.
10. We have essential control of the paper industry, plastics, insurance, etc.
11. In case of a foreign invasion, we have the Texas National Guard
and the Texas Air National Guard. We don’t have an Army, but since
everybody down here has at least six rifles and a pile of ammo, we can
raise an Army in 24 hours if we need one. If the situation really
gets bad, we can always call the Department of Public Safety and ask
them to send over Chuck Norris and a couple of Texas Rangers.
12. We are totally self-sufficient in beef, poultry, hogs, and several
types of grain, fruit and vegetables, and let’s not forget seafood
from the Gulf. Also, everybody down here knows how to cook them so
that they taste good. Don’t need any food.
This just names a few of the items that will keep the Republic of
Texas in good shape. There isn’t a thing out there that we need and
don’t have.
Now to the rest of the United States:
Since you won’t have the refineries to get gas for your cars, only the
President will be able to drive around in his big 9 mpg SUV.
The rest of the United States will have to walk or ride bikes.
You won’t have any TV as the Space Center in Houston will cut off
satellite communications.
You won’t have any natural gas to heat your homes, but since Algore
has predicted global warming, you will not need the gas as long as you
survive the 2000 years it will take to get enough heat from Global
Warming.
:D:D
---
### Author:  [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/127 "2009-02-19T15:38:19Z")
I liked my visit there, but after reading this thread, I never, ever, ever want to see the word Texas again. Beyond losing all meaning, the word has mutated into some kind of Lovecraftian god of tentacles and strange jagged teeth in my mind\*. Which isn’t fair, because it’s a nice place.
\*And the word ‘secede’ is rapidly becoming its snickering, ratty little sidekick.
---
### Author:  [@InLucemEdita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InLucemEdita)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/128 "2009-02-19T16:13:35Z")
> [@Koxinga](#):
>
> I believe you’re from _Virginia_, aren’t you? Dude, are you for real?
>
> ETA, not that there’s anything wrong with being from Virginia, but boo hooing about a secessionist attitude while residing in the spearhead of the frakkin’ Confederacy? Gotta be a joke, unless it’s serious and one of those “lady doth protest too much” things . . .
See that’s just it…you’d expect to hear talk of secession this close to Richmond if you’re going to hear it anywhere…but never…not once has it ever come up. Nor has anyone in Wisconsin, Illinois, North Carolina, Maryland, California, or Massachusetts ever mentioned the topic while I lived in those states.
In contrast, it is pervasive enough in Texas that nearly everyone posting in this thread has heard of it in one form or another, and it is pervasive enough that Snopes has to debunk it. The people in the OP were not just crazy fringe people. The belief in the legal right of Texas to secede is WIDELY held among Texans. The belief that they are actually going to do it sometime soon…not so much.
And I wouldn’t say I’m from Virginia, but I live here now, and like it quite a lot.
As an aside, when I was moving from Texas to Virginia, three different Texans asked me why I would want to move to The North. That was topped only by the Texan who responded, “Virginia, huh? Well, it might be a nice place to visit, but I’d never want to live in New England.”
---
### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/129 "2009-02-19T16:20:19Z")
> [@Koxinga](#):
>
> I believe you’re from _Virginia_, aren’t you? Dude, are you for real?
>
> ETA, not that there’s anything wrong with being from Virginia, but boo hooing about a secessionist attitude while residing in the spearhead of the frakkin’ Confederacy? Gotta be a joke, unless it’s serious and one of those “lady doth protest too much” things . . .
Virginia has gotten over it. I don’t know a single Virginian who waxes nostalgic about secession or the Confederacy.
---
### Author:  [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/130 "2009-02-19T16:44:04Z")
> [@Clothahump](#):
>
> **John Kerry** will have to figure out a way to
> keep them warm….
> [@](#):
>
> ’t have any natural gas to heat your homes, but since **Algore**
> has predicted global warming…
'S funny, I don’t remember John Kerry or Al Gore joking about how they want Texas to secede or otherwise sniping at Texas.
---
### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/131 "2009-02-19T16:54:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> (Psssst! Do you guys think you could talk Oklahoma into going with you?)
I pre-emptively ask for asylum from a secessionist TX/OK. I was born in Tulsa, but consider myself a Missourian.
---
### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/132 "2009-02-19T16:59:27Z")
> [@Clothahump](#):
>
> However, suppose that Texas _could_ secede. What would happen if we did?
>
> 1. NASA is just south of Houston, Texas . We will control the space industry.
>
> 2. We refine over 85% of the gasoline in the United States .
>
> 3. Defense Industry–we have over 65% of it. The term “Don’t mess
> with Texas ,” will take on a whole new meaning.
>
> 4. Oil - we can supply all the oil that the Republic of Texas will
> need for the next 300 years. Yankee states? Sorry about that.
>
> 5. Natural Gas - again we have all we need[…]
>
> 6. Computer Industry - we currently lead the nation in producing
> computer chips and communications–small companies like Texas
> Instruments, Dell Computer, EDS, Raytheon, National Semiconductor,
> Motorola, Intel, AMD, Atmel, Applied Materials, Ball Miconductor,
> Dallas Semiconductor, Delphi , Nortel, Alcatel, etc, etc. The list
> goes on and on.
>
> 7. Medical Care - We have the largest research centers for cancer
> research, the best burn centers and the top trauma units in the world,
> as well as other large health centers. Dallas has some of the best
> hospitals in the United States .
>
> 8. We have enough colleges to keep us going: University of Texas ,
> Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rice, SMU, University of Houston , Baylor, UNT
> ( University of North Texas ), Texas Women’s University, etc. Ivy
> grows better in the South anyway.
Rice is _tiny._ Will it expand?
> [@](#):
>
> 1. We have a ready supply of workers. We could just open the border
> when we need some more.
>
> 2. We have essential control of the paper industry, plastics, insurance, etc.
>
> 3. In case of a foreign invasion, we have the Texas National Guard
> and the Texas Air National Guard. We don’t have an Army, but […]
>
> 4. We are totally self-sufficient in beef, poultry, hogs, and several
> types of grain, fruit and vegetables[…] Don’t need any food.
>
> […]
>
> You won’t have any TV as the Space Center in Houston will cut off
> satellite communications.
Yeah, like we couldn’t just change where we base our space & defense agencies. :rolleyes:
Most of your list is assuming an unusually closed border for any state, let alone one with huge wilderness border & coastline.
---
### Author:  [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/133 "2009-02-19T17:12:08Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> Rice is _tiny._ Will it expand?
[Of course it will](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffed_rice).
come on, expect me to leave a straight line like that alone?
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### Author:  [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/134 "2009-02-19T17:15:58Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> Rice is _tiny._ Will it expand?
Sure, just put it in some water.
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/135 "2009-02-19T17:54:56Z")
> [@Frylock](#):
>
> Holy crap! In my experience, this myth is “common knowledge” here in Texas!
In my experience a lot of things that are “common knowledge” in Texas are actually considered “pretty dumb” elsewhere in the country.
---
### Author:  [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/136 "2009-02-19T18:19:57Z")
[http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=81R&Bill=HCR50](http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=81R&Bill=HCR50)
I’ll be in Houston over the week end. If I see any secessionists I’ll report back.
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### Author:  [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/137 "2009-02-19T18:26:15Z")
[http://www.texassecede.com/faq.asp](http://www.texassecede.com/faq.asp)
---
### Author:  [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/138 "2009-02-19T23:27:30Z")
I married into a family of Texans, so I am familiar with the theory of the Texas Centered Universe.
It is especially true since I am from Colorado which many Texans feel is a colony of Texas. (It often surprises Texans that we don’t agree with this belief).
Everytime one of my in-laws goes on and on about the importance, brilliance, beauty, size, etc. of Texas, I just recall the old chestnut that goes, “If I owned Hell and Texas, I’d rent out Texas and live in Hell.”
(OK, OK, that specifically refers to West Texas - but it is still part of Texas)
---
### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/139 "2009-02-19T23:28:28Z")
> [@Burton](#):
>
> [81(R) History for HCR 50 | Texas Legislature Online](http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=81R&Bill=HCR50)
Looks like some “State Soveriegnty” legislation pushers; the weird “texassecede” site links to some Lew Rockwell and Thomas Di Lorenzo “up with the Tenth Amendment and State Sovereignty, down with Lincoln” websites as well. Very odd guys, but definitely not limited to Texas. Similar or identical bills have been introduced in at least nine or ten other states.
[Washington](http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?year=2009&bill=4009)
[New Hampshire](http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html)
[Arizona](http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/bills/hcr2024p.htm)
[Montana](http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0246.htm)
[Michigan](http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(rlnjqf35ywosjfy1d1ktia45))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=2009-HCR-0004)
[Missouri](http://www.house.mo.gov/content.aspx?info=/bills091/bills/HR212.HTM)
[Oklahoma](http://axiomamuse.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/state-legislator-charles-key-wants-to-limit-federal-power/)
[California](http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/93-94/bill/sen/sb_0001-0050/sjr_44_bill_940829_chaptered)
[Georgia](http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/1995_96/leg/fulltext/sr308.htm)
Some State Sovereignty websites claim that Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Alaska, Kansas, Alabama, Nevada, Maine and Pennsylvania all have legislators saying they’re going to introduce the same bill.
---
### Author:  [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texans-first-americans-second/485899/140 "2009-02-19T23:53:04Z")
I lived in Fort Worth for a few years in the 1980’s…never heard that secessionist vibe being expressed. Nor did I particularly like living there, either. Too crowded and too hot.
And too many wannabe cowboys.
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