# Texas Board of Education may certify Creationist-based "Science" Master's Degrees **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 18, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493 "2007-12-18T19:48:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/1 "2007-12-18T19:48:23Z")
[Jesus wept, people, seriously.](http://insidehighered.com/news/2007/12/17/texas) > [@](#): > > On Friday, an advisory committee to the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board recommended that the state allow the Institute for Creation Research to start offering online master’s degrees in science education. I’m putting this in the pit because I suspect the subject has the potential to become rather heated. _How_ is accrediting these nutjobs (sorry, rational Christians and other persons of faith) even remotely appropriate? /weeps for humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/2 "2007-12-18T20:13:10Z")
Definitely worrisome, especially since this is about qualifying people as science teachers. Why stop at Creation Science? Why not say that people who study astrology are qualified as science teachers. I noticed this from the article: > [@](#): > > Asked for his views on evolution, Paredes said “I accept the conventions of science’ and “I believe evolution has a legitimate place in the teaching of science.” But he declined to say that evolution should be taught as the science. > > “A lot of people believe creationism is a legitimate point of view. I respect them,” Paredes said. “I’m an advocate of the principle that when there is a controversy and there are legitimate arguments on both sides of the conflict, my pedagogical principle is ‘teach the conflict.’ Maybe that’s a possibility here.” “Teach the controversy” is right out of the Discovery Institute songbook. It’s fallacious, disingenuous bullshit. There is no scientific controversy over evolution. Just because uneducated people don’t want to believe it doesn’t mean that there’s any legitmate controversy. If I don’t believe in the germ theory of disease, does that mean there is a "controversy’ about it and that this “controvery” should be taught in medical schools? By their logic, people who believe that diseases are caused by evil spirits and who train as witch doctors to learn all about them should be licensed to teach in med schools. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/3 "2007-12-18T20:19:54Z")
This was advice from an advisory committee. The board hasn’t made a decision yet. There is not yet a real reason to panic. Next month may be a different story. But seriously, how can one have a master’s in creation? There is no theory of creation, just nose-thumbing at legitimate science. Just how much learning is there in reading the first two books of Genesis? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/4 "2007-12-18T20:23:38Z")
Seems a bit early to get TO worked up about this. It’s just an advisory ruling, and it hasn’t even happened yet. I think if I lived in Texas (thank the gods I don’t) then I’d be starting to agitate against this however…the sooner the better to nip this in the bud. It’s hard to believe that something like this would be accredited simply if the state says so. Pretty unreal, that. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/5 "2007-12-18T20:35:12Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] But seriously, how can one have a master’s in creation? [/QUOTE] Isn’t there only ONE Master of Creation in their belief system? Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/6 "2007-12-18T20:38:49Z")
I wouldn’t bet a nickel against this garbage going straight through and I wouldn’t bet a nickel that teachers with “Masters Degrees” will be out there and will be hired. Texas is capable of insanity that makes Kansas look like the very model of scientific thought. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/7 "2007-12-18T20:39:33Z")
I am angry that I can’t have a master’s in pasta if I believe in the FSM. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/8 "2007-12-18T20:47:34Z")
Wait, so can I get one of these degrees and then go around claiming that I have a masters degree? I mean, sure it’s no MBA, but if all I have to do is submit a drawing of people riding dinosaurs or whatever as my thesis and then I can get a better paying job by listing this on my resume I’m totally going to do this. I mean, sure fuck these morons but I’ll take them for anything I can get up to and including a doctorate if they want to start offering them. The way to fight accreditation is by total discreditation and abuse and I’m just the man for the job. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/9 "2007-12-18T21:03:51Z")
I wonder if next they will change theology degrees into science degrees or start offering Masters Degrees in English education for how to read the code in the static on your TV. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/10 "2007-12-18T21:04:34Z")
“Teaching the controversy” would fall under sociology, or perhaps political science, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/11 "2007-12-18T21:05:11Z")
Check out the Institute For Creation Research’s Graduate School [site](http://www.icr.edu/se/info.html). You can minor in Astro/Geophysics; one of the courses is described: > [@](#): > > A review, critique, and evaluation of assumptions and evidences for the age of the earth and its rock layers. Particular emphasis will be placed on surveying the use of the radioisotope dating methods, especially potassium-argon, rubidium-strontium, samarium-neodymium and uranium-thorium-lead, to expose the fatal problems with them. Special emphasis will also focus on the results of the RATE (Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth) research project, including helium diffusion in zircon, fission tracks, radiohalos, discordant isochron “ages,” and radiocarbon in supposedly ancient organic materials and diamonds, that together indicate that nuclear decay was grossly accelerated during a recent catastrophic event in earth history and that the earth is therefore young. A thorough analysis of all the evidence indicating a young earth will be undertaken. Let’s not forget Geology! > [@](#): > > The student will gain experience with principles and interpretations in historical geology and geophysics including the primary geological and geophysical evidences for a global flood. Students explore how computer simulations using TERRA can illustrate theory of the mechanics of the global flood. Attention is paid to the composition and structure of the earth’s crust and mantle. Course includes principles of sedimentology and stratigraphy for the purpose of interpreting strata and fossils, principles and observations for understanding catastrophic plate tectonics, principles and examples of the three styles of catastrophic volcanism as applied to the stratigraphic record, and, finally, principles and illustrations of exponential decline in process rates in recent history. Global flood theme is developed from ancient cultures and literature, especially explored by analysis of ancient Hebrew and Greek texts. The Texas Freedom Network links to the story. Here’s the whole [News Clips](http://www.tfn.org/news/) page–to show what we’re up against down here. (I’m a member of the TFN.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/12 "2007-12-18T21:40:25Z")
I like the “Advanced Studies of Creationism”. Do you get to see God actually creating something in that course? The current governor of Texas, [Rick Perry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry), has a degree in Animal Science (not sure exactly what that entails), but he seems to be a pretty hard core Biblical literalist. We may need to get a ruling from the SCOTUS to stop this nonsense from invading HS science classed. The Dover case was pivotal, but limited in jurisdictional reach. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/13 "2007-12-18T21:51:51Z")
You guys just need to keep repeating what we learned in grade eight: if it leads to independently-testable hypotheses that can be falsified or verified, it’s science. Anything else is opinion. ---
**Author:** ![aptronym](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@aptronym](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aptronym)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/14 "2007-12-18T21:59:30Z")
Who cares? People who can’t tell ICR science degrees from real science degrees are dumbasses anyway - if Texas starts approving them, it’ll just invite higher scrutiny for non-dumbass degrees at non-dumbass institutions, which is long overdue. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/15 "2007-12-18T22:12:29Z")
At times like this I really, really miss Molly Ivens. ---
**Author:** ![NightRabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbce88/32.png) [@NightRabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NightRabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/16 "2007-12-18T22:15:04Z")
Another reason to homeschool my kids! If I ever have any. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/17 "2007-12-18T23:03:10Z")
[QUOTE=Sailboat] Isn’t there only ONE Master of Creation in their belief system? Sailboat [/QUOTE] He-man? (d&r) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/18 "2007-12-18T23:03:54Z")
In the end there can BE only one! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/19 "2007-12-18T23:06:45Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] This was advice from an advisory committee. The board hasn’t made a decision yet. There is not yet a real reason to panic. Next month may be a different story. But seriously, how can one have a master’s in creation? There is no theory of creation, just nose-thumbing at legitimate science. Just how much learning is there in reading the first two books of Genesis? [/QUOTE] Don’t you think that the fact that Texas has an advisory board full of Bible-thumping anti- scientific morons is worrying enough? Ones who either never read about the Dover decision or who don’t care? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493/20 "2007-12-18T23:17:22Z")
Is there a way to make Texas be its own country again? Please? My brother lives there. He’s a nice guy and all (he lives in Austin), but seriously, what is this shit? If it were its own country, all the other nutters would move there too, and we’d all be better off. Can I get a Master’s in Nick at Night? Wait, make that TVLand–that’s more my milleu… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-may-certify-creationist-based-science-masters-degrees/430493.md?page=2)