# Texas Board of Education meeting -- Jesus Christ, why do we have to listen to these clowns? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275 "2010-05-21T16:49:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/81 "2010-05-23T13:16:56Z")
Atlantic Triangular Trade instead of slave trade? Free Enterprise System instead of capitalism? Aren’t these the sorts of bullshit PC wordgames designed to avoid offending people’s sensibilities that conservatives usually detest? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/82 "2010-05-23T14:18:39Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **John Mace** , as a teacher, I’ve been aware of the Texas influence on the nation’s school books for a long time. And I’ve been following the proposed changes in the social studies textbook for months. I’ve even posted about it previously. > > We want our textbooks written by historians and not by political advocates. This committee has voted to have a textbook that has information in it that has not been vetted by historians. > > You wouldn’t like it if the liberals had written a textbook that was from the left point of view and changed some facts around to make glorify their point of view beyond anything close to the truth. And it shouldn’t be that way. > > Neither should things be twisted from the right. And that is what has happened. And it has happened in a BIG way. They have rewritten history. And if you don’t believe me, ask a historian. > > You see complains now about how “my teacher told me wrong.” Wait until these kids grow up. And whether you realize it or not, you do learn things in school. > > You will be hearing more about this textbook. I don’t like what they are doing in Texas. I’ve said that several times in this thread. However, I’m not going to agree with posters who also don’t like it, but who post factually incorrect arguments in opposition of it. > [@joebuck20](#): > > Atlantic Triangular Trade instead of slave trade? Free Enterprise System instead of capitalism? Aren’t these the sorts of bullshit PC wordgames designed to avoid offending people’s sensibilities that conservatives usually detest? Hypocrisy knows no political bounds. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/83 "2010-05-23T18:55:14Z")
I am a Texas public high school science teacher, and I am extremely frustrated and embarrased by our SBOE. I can’t stand that these ignorant fools are given the responsibility to decide what should and shouldn’t be taught in our schools. **Silenus** is correct, however, in saying that we teachers can be quite subversive and resourceful when it comes to doing our jobs–especially when we are working in the best interests of our students’ educations. With the exception of maybe one hour of observation each year by an assistant principal (maybe another half-hour if you add in occasional “walk-though” observations), there are no administrators or school board members monitoring what I teach on a daily basis. How I present the state objectives is largely left to me. Regarding textbooks, based on what I see happening in my school, I predict that physical textbooks will soon (within the next 10 years) be of little concern. They are outrageously expensive, can be lost or damaged, are a big pain in the ass for districts, and are only renewed every 10 years or so–by which time they are often woefully dated in their design and information. Individual schools can often end up losing tens of thousands of dollars due to lost or damaged books. They are a hassle to store and distribute. Within the last couple of years my school has gone from issuing each student a textbook for each class, to allowing students the _option_ of checking out a textbook for the year (which a lot of students forego given that many of our teachers do not utilize the official textbooks at all). I tell my students that if they want to check out the textbook for my class, they can do so and keep it at home as a reference. Granted, my class is more about process and problem-solving and not as much about memorizing individual “bits” of information. The biggest worry is how these idiotic revisions to the curriculum will be implemented in standardized tests for social studies and science. The TAKS tests are the single biggest influence on what is taught in our schools. They determine a school’s acceptability ratings and that influences the job security of administrators and teachers. The TAKS tests are going to be replaced by End Of Course exams that will allow even more specificity in which objectives are tested. While I am looking forward to EOC exams since it means I won’t have to spend several days reviewing biology in my physics classes, an EOC exam could be a bad thing if it means some of this moronic conservative propaganda can’t be glossed over so easily during instruction. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/84 "2010-05-23T19:02:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Now both actions (the halt to the spread of slavery and the Civil War) resulted in (or would have resulted in) slaves being freed, but freeing the slaves wasn’t the purpose of the War. The purpose was to prevent secession. Ok, so the southern states seceded to prevent secession. Got it. What American history book did you learn from in HS? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/85 "2010-05-23T19:36:49Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Ok, so the southern states seceded to prevent secession. > > Got it. > > What American history book did you learn from in HS? :rolleyes: Huh? I think what he’s saying is that the South seceded, and the North engaged them in a war to prevent that secession. Which is true. If Lincoln had thrown up his hands after SC seceded, or after the first shots at Fort Sumter, and said, “Hey, you want independence? You got it” and withdrawn federal troops from seceding states, then things would have been very different. Lincoln made clear in a number of documents, even after the war started, that his primary aim was to preserve the union. Like in his famous letter to Horace Greeley, in 1862: > [@](#): > > My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. And attempting to save the union by “freeing some and leaving others alone” was precisely what he did with the Emancipation Proclamation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/86 "2010-05-23T19:50:16Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Ok, so the southern states seceded to prevent secession. > > Got it. > > What American history book did you learn from in HS? :rolleyes: If it wasn’t clear from the context, I was talking about things from the point of view of the North. I probably should have said “The North didn’t go to war to end slavery. It went to war to prevent secession”. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/87 "2010-05-23T20:21:55Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > I am a Texas public high school science teacher, and I am extremely frustrated and **embarrased** by our SBOE. :smack: _Now_ I’m embarrassed. :o ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/88 "2010-05-23T21:10:51Z")
The kids call you “Coach”, then? ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/89 "2010-05-23T22:04:16Z")
😛 Heh, nope, I don’t coach–I teach physics full time. But I’m not perfect\* and sometimes I make typos. One of my colleagues used to ask as a ‘joke’ : “What’s the first name of every _biology_ teacher in the state of Texas?” “Coach.” \*Sshhh! Don’t tell the other physics teachers I admitted to not being infallible. They’ll kick me out of the club! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/90 "2010-05-23T22:15:47Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > One of my colleagues used to ask as a ‘joke’ : “What’s the first name of every _biology_ teacher in the state of Texas?” OK, you have to explain that to me. Guess I’m just not in tune with my inner Texan! ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/91 "2010-05-23T22:24:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, you have to explain that to me. Guess I’m just not in tune with my inner Texan! Some academic subjects tend to be taught by sports coaches, because they need to teach something besides their sport. In my high school, lower-level math classes tended to be taught by coaches. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/92 "2010-05-23T22:29:44Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Some academic subjects tend to be taught by sports coaches, because they need to teach something besides their sport. In my high school, lower-level math classes tended to be taught by coaches. So, Biology is thought to be one of the easiest classes to teach? Maybe in Texas, where all you have to know is Genesis. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/93 "2010-05-23T23:05:24Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I’ve lived in the South for 2/3 of a century. I have never heard it used seriously. I had never heard it at all until 1957 when a new friend from Georgia used it as a joke. I have heard it used _only_ in a joking manner since then – sometimes very straight-faced in the presence of Yanks. I lived in S.C. for the first 18 years of my life, and return at least once a year, and many members of my family and old family friends (and their children who are my age) use this term seriously. They LITERALLY believe that the war was an aggressive act on the part of the North, and the Civil War was fought to protect themselves. They also believe blacks were happier as slaves. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/94 "2010-05-23T23:20:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, Biology is thought to be one of the easiest classes to teach? Maybe in Texas, where all you have to know is Genesis. 🙂 Dunno about biology; the biology teachers at my high school were all women and none of them ever coached a sport, at least that I know about. I did have the golf coach for pre-algebra and one of the assistant football coaches for algebra. I blame them for my lack of confidence in math because I didn’t learn a damn thing from either of them. Their job was to sit at the front of the class and assign work. When we had a question, we were told to look at the examples in the book. Neither of them knew a damn thing about math or how to teach it, but they were sure good at coaching golf and football. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/95 "2010-05-23T23:49:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, Biology is thought to be one of the easiest classes to teach? Maybe in Texas, where all you have to know is Genesis. 🙂 My Biology I teacher was brilliant & inspiring. So I signed up for Biology II. But she had health problems from a complicated pregnancy & dropped out of teaching for a while. (I hope she eventually went back.) So we had a Coach Teacher for Biology II. The course material was pretty good, except for every page on reproduction above the level of slime mold having been cut out of the textbook. But he was _not_ an inspiring teacher. At all. On the other hand, Coach Robison taught Geography in Jr High; he was pretty good. (Both his kids became singer-songwriters.) ---
**Author:** ![Sinningia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Sinningia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinningia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/96 "2010-05-23T23:52:04Z")
It’s people who this who motivate me to pass the tests, draw my own conclusions, and get out of Texas. Also, I have never heard the Civil War referred to as anything else, except in the context of poorly-applied humor. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/97 "2010-05-24T00:09:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, Biology is thought to be one of the easiest classes to teach? The way high school Biology is generally taught–not just in Texas, AFAIK, but in most places–there is a much greater focus on lower-level thinking skills like memorization (cell structures and processes, body systems and specific parts, diseases, etc.) than on critical thinking. Chemistry and–in my biased opinion–especially Physics tend to place more emphasis on critical thinking, problem solving, and mathematical applications. Therefore they are seen as more difficult classes, not just to learn but also to teach. A lot of adults–even teachers–are intimidated by the math. It should be noted that Biology is often (usually?) taught as a 9th grade course, so the students’ math skills are not as developed as they will be by the time they reach my physics class. And personally, I am not at all scared of the math, but I would be pretty frightened if I had to teach 9th graders! I’ve had nightmares about that. :eek: Props to all the Biology teachers/coaches out there! 🙂 On preview, as Bridget points out, there are plenty of exceptions to any generalization. My own high school physics teacher was a coach and an excellent teacher. We have a biology teacher at my school who is a great teacher who really challenges her students and makes them think (incidentally, she’s not a coach). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/98 "2010-05-24T00:53:09Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > The way high school Biology is generally taught–not just in Texas, AFAIK, but in most places–there is a much greater focus on lower-level thinking skills like memorization (cell structures and processes, body systems and specific parts, diseases, etc.) than on critical thinking. Chemistry and–in my biased opinion–especially Physics tend to place more emphasis on critical thinking, problem solving, and mathematical applications. Therefore they are seen as more difficult classes, not just to learn but also to teach. A lot of adults–even teachers–are intimidated by the math. FYI, my degrees are in physics, too, so I’m familiar with how the various sciences are viewed. I just thought that if you were going for “easy to learn/teach”, you’d stay out of science altogether. Maybe Sociology or something. 🙂 > [@](#): > > It should be noted that Biology is often (usually?) taught as a 9th grade course, so the students’ math skills are not as developed as they will be by the time they reach my physics class. And personally, I am not at all scared of the math, but I would be pretty frightened if I had to teach 9th graders! I’ve had nightmares about that. :eek: Props to all the Biology teachers/coaches out there! 🙂 Yeah, there isn’t much math in biology anyway. It wouldn’t make a lot of sense to try and teach physics to students who had nat had at least algebra and geometry. That would indeed be a challenge! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/99 "2010-05-24T01:02:11Z")
Most of the coaches out here seem to gravitate towards US History. That they can do from memory. Sorta. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275/100 "2010-05-24T01:02:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If it wasn’t clear from the context, I was talking about things from the point of view of the North. I probably should have said “The North didn’t go to war to end slavery. It went to war to prevent secession”. No, it wasn’t clear to me since you had been taking the POV (so to speak) of the South. At first I thought it was just a typo of sorts, but I thought I’d razz you about it anyway. 🙂 And there is this: so you’re not outraged. That’s fine. But why does your response have to hold true for all here? IMO I think it’s short-sighted, reactionary and just plain wrong for the TSBOE to do what it’s doing (or trying to). I see your point, re the content of textbooks, but I don’t agree with it. If someone gets upset about an issue, so what? Another point: subversive teachers are great (I suppose) but the thought of maverick teachers, out there teaching whatever the hell they want to is a bit disquieting as well… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-board-of-education-meeting-jesus-christ-why-do-we-have-to-listen-to-these-clowns/540275.md?page=6)