# Texas Cop Tasers Granny **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417 "2009-06-11T04:23:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/121 "2009-06-11T19:52:06Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > **Cisco,** > > Could you please read what I wrote in Post 76 and explain what problems you have from there? I already did. The officer should not have escalated the situation by having her get out of the car. He was on video giving her the ticket. > [@stuthehistoryguy](#): > > As the cop’s immediate superior said, he’d taze his own mother Yes, of that I have no doubt at all. > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Oh well. I guess I was wrong. Your rebuttal wasn’t nearly as entertaining as I had hoped. Somewhat instructive, however. Do you have anything constructive to add? Anything? Or are you just enjoying sniping at me? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/122 "2009-06-11T19:52:18Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > You’re the one not getting it. For the 3rd (or 4th, or whatever time): > > I said she wasn’t a threat that deserved tasing > You said she was a thread because she was speeding > This suggests speeding should be punished by tasing > > It’s very, very simple, really. I’m sorry that you made a horrible, irrelevant counterpoint, but at least own up to it, ok? The tazing wasn’t a punishment. That might be what’s causing all the confusion here. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/123 "2009-06-11T19:53:55Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > On the same vein some of the others here have been suggesting: > > What exactly was accomplished here by this cop? > > The old lady would have had to pay the ticket. If she didn’t, first the fees would have gone up, then her licence would have been suspended. She would have had to pay. why did the officer escalate the situation? There was no need to. > > So instead of giving her the ticket and leaving, he tasered and arrested a cantankerous old woman. > > Wow! What a hero! I sure feel safer now that he is keeping the sour old ladies at bay. I think I’m just going to save this as a word doc. Speed + Get Caught = either 1. Agree to Appear in Court, or 2. Go to Jail. If no 1, then 2. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/124 "2009-06-11T19:55:29Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I already did. The officer should not have escalated the situation by having her get out of the car. He was on video giving her the ticket. This gains no legal significance by repetition. Giving her the ticket was not the condition precedent to her release. Look at the Wookie! Look at the Wookie! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/125 "2009-06-11T19:57:08Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > On the same vein some of the others here have been suggesting: > > What exactly was accomplished here by this cop? > > The old lady would have had to pay the ticket. If she didn’t, first the fees would have gone up, then her licence would have been suspended. She would have had to pay. why did the officer escalate the situation? There was no need to. > > So instead of giving her the ticket and leaving, he tasered and arrested a cantankerous old woman. > > Wow! What a hero! I sure feel safer now that he is keeping the sour old ladies at bay. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11233735&postcount=47](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11233735&postcount=47) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11233754&postcount=50](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11233754&postcount=50) [QUOTE=Cisco] Do you have anything constructive to add? Anything? Or are you just enjoying sniping at me? [/QUOTE] It’s not really that much fun, actually. But I see that **whole bean** has tossed a few posers at you. Seeing what you do with them might be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/126 "2009-06-11T20:00:12Z")
Damnit whole bean, you promised to leave me alone. > [@whole\_bean](#): > > Huh. I guess I’ll take the bait: > please show me where you address the contention that she was lawfully arrested for her failure to indicate her willingness to appear by signing the ticket; Post #46 [Not having her get out of the truck in the first place. “Not gonna sign? Ok.” \ “See you in court.”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11233720&postcount=46) > [@whole\_bean](#): > > please show me where you address the contention that she was tased for resiting arrest and not speeding; Post #37 [She wouldn’t have been actively resisting arrest at that point. That didn’t happen until he dragged her out onto the street](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11233614&postcount=37) > [@whole\_bean](#): > > please show me where you addressed the contention that because she was tased for resiting arrest and not speeding that your slide down the slope to tasing all speeders is illogical There’s your strawman. I never said all speeders should be tased. I said the argument that she was a danger because she was speeding was dumb, because it was a response to me saying she shouldn’t have been tased because she wasn’t a danger. > [@whole\_bean](#): > > , alternatviely defend your assertion that approving of the tasing of someone for resiting arrest is the equivalent to approving of the tasing of all speeders; See above. > [@whole\_bean](#): > > please show me that you understand not just how to spell the word strawman but that you actually know what it means by identifying one strawman in the referenced post. See above. Now, whole bean, “please” cut all this “please show me” nonsense out and honor your statement that you were going to leave me alone. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/127 "2009-06-11T20:03:04Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11233735&postcount=47](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11233735&postcount=47) People often cite laws in situations like this as the ultimate can’t-touch-me argument. You realize that not all laws are correct, right? I mean, I don’t even have to cite the myriad of positively ghastly laws we’ve had in this country, do I? I honestly don’t give a shit if he was “legally” supposed to take her downtown for not signing the ticket. What he did was wrong, legal or illegal. He made a very dangerous situation out of nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/128 "2009-06-11T20:09:37Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > People often cite laws in situations like this as the ultimate can’t-touch-me argument. You realize that not all laws are correct, right? I mean, I don’t even have to cite the myriad of positively ghastly laws we’ve had in this country, do I? I honestly don’t give a shit if he was “legally” supposed to take her downtown for not signing the ticket. What he did was wrong, legal or illegal. He made a very dangerous situation out of nothing. People may do so, but I don’t, and I didn’t. However, if, in a discussion about whether a police officer performed his duties correctly, someone takes the position that adhering to legislative statute is the wrong thing to do, I’m not sure that leaves much to discuss. If a cop can be wrong for following the law, and right for not following it, the question becomes moot. If you get to decide which laws should be followed by LEO’s and which shouldn’t, then so can anyone else, and any question of propriety can simply be declared answered by _fiat_. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/129 "2009-06-11T20:10:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Sure. Laugh it up! 72, young old, dressed in a suit, dressed in a bunny costume. > > You’re still on the hook for the ticket. I’d be sure to wear a taser-proof bunny costume. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/130 "2009-06-11T20:10:58Z")
Hmm, I take it back then, my mistake for missing that. Seems like a failure of the legislation though doesn’t it? To force Cops to escalate such a minor thing to an arrest and possible confrontation with mean old ladies? In New Jersey we don’t have to sign jack. Either we pay the ticket or show up in court or the fine goes up after the first couple of weeks, then your licence is suspended, then a warrant is issued for your arrest. Which does suck if, like me, you were leaving town right after getting a ticket, left the money with mother to pay the fine whilst I was gone, came back and since I was attending school in NYC and living with my dad, had no car nor need of one and did not drive. Then A year later I get arrested while WALKING simply because some random cop decided to stop me and ask me for ID - I didn’t drive but I still had my drivers licence in my wallet. BAM! I came back as someone in need of arrest. I thought the cop was playing some sort of joke on me. Shock of my life, let me tell you. I suppose I should count myself lucky that I wasn’t a cantankerous old sour puss. Or I might have been tazed. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/131 "2009-06-11T20:15:20Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > … She’s also interviewed, and she claims she was not in the least argumentative, but the video belies that claim. She clearly was asking to be taken in. She is lying. I saw the video too, and she was spoiling for a fight. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/132 "2009-06-11T20:19:08Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > People often cite laws in situations like this as the ultimate can’t-touch-me argument. You realize that not all laws are correct, right? I mean, I don’t even have to cite the myriad of positively ghastly laws we’ve had in this country, do I? I honestly don’t give a shit if he was “legally” supposed to take her downtown for not signing the ticket. What he did was wrong, legal or illegal. He made a very dangerous situation out of nothing. No, she did. She could have signed the ticket. She could have obeyed his directions. She could have submitted to arrest. If you don’t think police should be able to arrest people who are openly breaking a law you won’t find a lot of thinking people on your side. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/133 "2009-06-11T20:19:56Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > People often cite laws in situations like this as the ultimate can’t-touch-me argument. You realize that not all laws are correct, right? I mean, I don’t even have to cite the myriad of positively ghastly laws we’ve had in this country, do I? I honestly don’t give a shit if he was “legally” supposed to take her downtown for not signing the ticket. What he did was wrong, legal or illegal. He made a very dangerous situation out of nothing. No, not nothing. Resisting arrest is not “nothing.” But you’ve higlighted the futility of engaging you on this issue. Upthread, You repreatedly and incorrectly say all he had to do is drop the ticket in her window (this despite being disabused of the notion that there would be any legal consequence to such an action). Then you attack the very procedure at issue (arrest for violation of criminal statute is one of the most common elements of our criminal justice system). You haven’t just moved the goalposts, you’ve replaced them with umbrellas. As for the strawman, if Brown Eyed Girl wasn’t clear at first that the danger that was among the factors that warranted the tasing was the danger posed during the resistance of arrest, she cleared that up later. Nonetheless, you persisted under your first, incorrect, conclusion. In the spirit of the mercy rule, I will leave you alone. I can see you have been beat, even if you cannot. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/134 "2009-06-11T20:22:26Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > No, she did. > > She could have signed the ticket. She could have obeyed his directions. She could have submitted to arrest. > > If you don’t think police should be able to arrest people who are openly breaking a law you won’t find a lot of thinking people on your side. I just don’t think having her sign a piece of paper in compliance with an archaic law is worth hauling her off for. Good day and see you in court. It’s all on tape. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/135 "2009-06-11T20:22:28Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > You’re the one not getting it. For the 3rd (or 4th, or whatever time): > > I said she wasn’t a threat that deserved tasing Actually, what you said was: [QUOTE=Cisco] I didn’t realize tasers were intended to force politeness. [/QUOTE] [Post #25.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11233464&postcount=25) You also said: [QUOTE=Cisco] The only thing she was a threat to was his dangerous and out of control ego. [/QUOTE] [Post #27.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11233472&postcount=27) Then, you said: [QUOTE=Cisco] I don’t see why getting pushed/yelled at/shocked/hauled off to jail, or anything else remotely that serious should be a consequence of not signing a ticket. Like I said, he had her on camera. It’s not like they weren’t going to be able to serve justice on this supercriminal. Police should not be returning nerf-gun fire with rocket launchers. This woman was no threat to anyone, including “herself” as the pro-taser crowd usually likes to claim. [/QUOTE] [Post #42.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11233691&postcount=42) So, you believe she was tasered to make her more polite, but you imply that the “pro-taser crowd” --not you-- believes she was “pushed/yelled at/shocked/hauled off to jail” because she was a threat. Although, you also admit that you don’t see any threat other than to officer’s ego. Again, you repeat the idea that the woman was no threat to anyone including herself and was roughed up for not signing a ticket. You conveniently ignore all instances of her behavior that put other people and her own well-being at risk, including speeding through a construction zone, disregarding the officer’s instructions to stand off of the road in a safer zone, escalating her resistance to force some kind of contact between her and the officer in order for the officer to do his job and enforce the law. > [@](#): > > You said she was a thread because she was speeding Yes, I did point out that her speeding endangered her safety and that of other people as well. It seems to me you had continually brushed aside that offense in an attempt to make her appear unjustly persecuted by the officer or something. If that’s not the case, I have no idea why you would ignore the safety issues of speeding through a construction zone and continually state that she was simply a threat to his ego. > [@](#): > > This suggests speeding should be punished by tasing Only by your tortured reasoning. Let me make it clearer for you then. In no uncertain terms: Speeding (particularly through a construction zone) should be punished by steep fines and, with regard to repeated offense, jail time and/or loss of driving privileges. Separately, no court or peace officer should inflict tasering as a form of punishment. Rather, the use of tasers should be restricted to enforcing compliance with any and all reasonable and lawful commands made by any law enforcement official. That any clearer? > [@](#): > > It’s very, very simple, really. I’m sorry that you made a horrible, irrelevant counterpoint, but at least own up to it, ok? Hey man, it’s your hole. Keep on digging if that’s your thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/136 "2009-06-11T20:24:39Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > No, not nothing. Resisting arrest is not “nothing.” You either don’t get, or enjoy ignoring what I’ve said in this thread. > [@whole\_bean](#): > > In the spirit of the mercy rule, I will leave you alone. I can see you have been beat, even if you cannot. Well, if it makes you feel better telling yourself that, go for it. Not that I believe you, since you’ve said this before. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/137 "2009-06-11T20:30:47Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > People may do so, but I don’t, and I didn’t. You responded to a post asking what the police officer ultimately accomplished by citing the law. Did I misunderstand what you were trying to say? Clarify, then. > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > However, if, in a discussion about whether a police officer performed his duties correctly, someone takes the position that adhering to legislative statute is the wrong thing to do, I’m not sure that leaves much to discuss. If a cop can be wrong for following the law, and right for not following it, the question becomes moot. If you get to decide which laws should be followed by LEO’s and which shouldn’t, then so can anyone else, and any question of propriety can simply be declared answered by _fiat_. Well you’re just doing what you just said you don’t and didn’t do, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/138 "2009-06-11T20:31:31Z")
Man I hate those “archaic” arrest laws. You know the ones that reference electronic records. I mean, they might have been relevant when Wyatt Earp was forcing people to ackowledge with a digital image signature created by by electronic stylus their willingness to appear and stand trial for the crime of which they were accused, but now a days, they’re just obsolete. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/139 "2009-06-11T20:32:41Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I just don’t think having her sign a piece of paper in compliance with an archaic law is worth hauling her off for. Good day and see you in court. It’s all on tape. But is _not signing it_ worth getting hauled off for? She chose to not sign it and get hauled off to jail. She chose to be unresponsive, dismissive and antagonistic. If the rule is sign or I’ll take you to see a judge now, why is it the cop’s fault if she chose to go see a judge now? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/140 "2009-06-11T20:36:15Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > You either don’t get, or enjoy ignoring what I’ve said in this thread. > > Well, if it makes you feel better telling yourself that, go for it. Not that I believe you, since you’ve said this before. I will honor my promise to 1. not present you with facts that derail your rant, and 2. direclty engage you in debate. I am holding on to my right to satarize your illogical argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417.md?page=8)