# Texas Cop Tasers Granny **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417 "2009-06-11T04:23:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/141 "2009-06-11T20:36:52Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > But is _not signing it_ worth getting hauled off for? To be honest, no. As a law, it’s nonsensical. What purpose does it serve? ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/142 "2009-06-11T20:39:34Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Hmm, I take it back then, my mistake for missing that. > > Seems like a failure of the legislation though doesn’t it? To force Cops to escalate such a minor thing to an arrest and possible confrontation with mean old ladies? In New Jersey we don’t have to sign jack. Either we pay the ticket or show up in court or the fine goes up after the first couple of weeks, then your licence is suspended, then a warrant is issued for your arrest. Why does the cop keep getting blamed for escalation? Is there some reasonable explanation for the old lady refusing to sign the damn ticket? It should be quite obvious that the cop was doing exactly what the law required him to do and she chose to make a big deal out of it on the side of the road. She wasn’t in NJ and those laws didn’t apply to her. If she didn’t like the law, she could have gone through the channels to get try to get it change, but instead she decided to challenge an LEO and, in every state, that’s just an incredibly stupid thing to do. > [@](#): > > Which does suck if, like me, you were leaving town right after getting a ticket, left the money with mother to pay the fine whilst I was gone, came back and since I was attending school in NYC and living with my dad, had no car nor need of one and did not drive. Then A year later I get arrested while WALKING simply because some random cop decided to stop me and ask me for ID - I didn’t drive but I still had my drivers licence in my wallet. BAM! I came back as someone in need of arrest. I thought the cop was playing some sort of joke on me. Shock of my life, let me tell you. Sucks, but at least you had the opportunity to go to court and straightened it all out. And, by the way, an arrest warrant is issued by the court, not the cops. They are legally required to comply with them as well. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/143 "2009-06-11T20:39:42Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > On the same vein some of the others here have been suggesting: > > What exactly was accomplished here by this cop? > > The old lady would have had to pay the ticket. If she didn’t, first the fees would have gone up, then her licence would have been suspended. She would have had to pay. why did the officer escalate the situation? He didn’t, she escalated it by refusing to sign the ticket. She escalated it again by resisting arrest. At no point did the officer taunt her or otherwise escalate the situation. > [@Kinthalis](#): > > So instead of giving her the ticket and leaving, he tasered and arrested a cantankerous old woman. He gave her the ticket and would have left if she signed it. As has been explained repeatedly, the signature is a necessary acknowledgement of the ticket and a promissory to appear in court. The signature is her bail. She was warned that she would be arrested and she clearly articulated her position by refusing the ticket and ASKING to go to jai. She was told to submit to handcuffs and she resisted. She was repeatedly told she would be tased and she resisted. He tried to handcuff her and she pulled away. > [@Kinthalis](#): > > Wow! What a hero! I sure feel safer now that he is keeping the sour old ladies at bay. People who don’t follow the traffic rules cause accidents. This woman endangered the construction workers. 2 years ago we had a granny pass a semi on a curve which caused an ugly accident with an oncoming semi. It would have been useful if she were pulled over earlier and arrested for an inability to follow the rules. I question the judgment of people like this woman who resist arrest in spite of being repeatedlly told the consequences. It’s a form of road-rage. The judge should pull her license until she completes a road-rage course ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/144 "2009-06-11T20:40:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > But is _not signing it_ worth getting hauled off for? > > She chose to not sign it and get hauled off to jail. She chose to be unresponsive, dismissive and antagonistic. If the rule is sign or I’ll take you to see a judge now, why is it the cop’s fault if she chose to go see a judge now? 1. I already pointed out that it’s a ridiculous rule, considering she’s on tape. A process server’s word is enough to prove in court you were served but a police officer’s word and a _video tape of you receiving it_ is not enough to prove you received a ticket? Absurd. 2. It’s not clear that she understood the consequences. It’s also not clear to me that the officer was required to take her in at this point, only that he was allowed to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/145 "2009-06-11T20:41:21Z")
First of all, if there is a law in Texas that if you don’t sign a ticket you go to jail, that is a bullshit law. I’m glad they’ve already incarcerated all the dangerous people in Texas, and still have enough room left over in the jails for speeders. Second, the lady offered to sign the ticket. Right after she gets out of the truck, she says “give it to me and I’ll sign it.” The cop refuses and shoves her. The cop had a chance to deescalate the situation and did not take it. Don’t get me wrong, I think everything he did was within the law and within department policy, I just think he’s a shitty cop. If I were caught on video in my job acting like that, I would not be in trouble, but I probably would be sent back to verbal judo training. Sometimes resolving a situation peacefully requires letting your ego be bruised a little bit. This cop needs to learn that lesson. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/146 "2009-06-11T20:42:21Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > To be honest, no. As a law, it’s nonsensical. What purpose does it serve? Law enforcement arrests people who are caught breaking laws. It’s the default. But, you’re half right, it doesn’t make sense to haul people in for lesser offenses like traffic violations. So, for lesser offenses, the TX legislature created an option for the accused - sign a statement indicating your agreement to appear in court and you won’t be hauled in. She chose not avail herslef of the option and was left with the default. You guys are like the lady that blames the jury for tearing apart her family by sending her husband to jail instead of blaming the husband for committing the damn crime. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/147 "2009-06-11T20:42:53Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > I will honor my promise to 1. not present you with facts that derail your rant, and 2. direclty engage you in debate. I am holding on to my right to satarize your illogical argument. Ah, so you reserve the right to taunt me. No, sorry, I do not think you have that right here in this forum. And an argument is not “illogical” just because “whole bean” disagrees with it. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/148 "2009-06-11T20:45:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > To be honest, no. As a law, it’s nonsensical. What purpose does it serve? I suppose it’s used as ultimate proof that you received the citation. I would expect that not every citation issued in Texas is videotaped and I guess it reduces the instances of people going in and saying, “But it wasn’t me, your honor!” as well as corrupt cops issuing citations that aren’t valid, as someone mentioned above. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/149 "2009-06-11T20:46:30Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > You responded to a post asking what the police officer ultimately accomplished by citing the law. Did I misunderstand what you were trying to say? Clarify, then. I was correcting a misunderstanding of the relevant laws. The poster I responded to understood. > [@](#): > > Well you’re just doing what you just said you don’t and didn’t do, aren’t you? No. I’m not offering anything as as an ultimate can’t touch me argument. I’m merely pointing out that if anyone at any time can declare a law null and void, then there isn’t much point having a discussion about whether a cop behaved appropriately. Don’t you agree? How can any cop ever defend any action if all one has to do is assert that the law in question is bad and therefore not to be followed/ How would that fly if I were to burgle your house? Should I be able to claim that I should not be arrested because burglary laws are wrong? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/150 "2009-06-11T20:48:41Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > First of all, if there is a law in Texas that if you don’t sign a ticket you go to jail, that is a bullshit law. I’m glad they’ve already incarcerated all the dangerous people in Texas, and still have enough room left over in the jails for speeders. . Actually the law (basically) says, if you sign the ticket you don’t go to jail. This has been covered. You either haven’t read the whole thread or read it and chose to ignore it. > [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > Second, the lady offered to sign the ticket. Right after she gets out of the truck, she says “give it to me and I’ll sign it.” The cop refuses and shoves her. The cop had a chance to deescalate the situation and did not take it. Don’t get me wrong, I think everything he did was within the law and within department policy, I just think he’s a shitty cop. If I were caught on video in my job acting like that, I would not be in trouble, but I probably would be sent back to verbal judo training. Sometimes resolving a situation peacefully requires letting your ego be bruised a little bit. This cop needs to learn that lesson. I actualy agree with this, but more by way of best practice as opposed to a standard. I think what he did was lawful and acceptable. I think it would have been better had he pursued the path you suggest. Since I have no serious qualms with the way he handled it, I won’t armchair his decision though. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/151 "2009-06-11T20:48:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > To be honest, no. As a law, it’s nonsensical. What purpose does it serve? How would you like to get arrested for failure to appear in court because an officer wrote up a bunch of bullshit tickets? I had an officer write a ticket just to be an asshole and he never submitted it. The case was dismissed but in the process I found out this wasn’t the first time the officer did this. He could just as easily have let me go and THEN write a ticket which would have escalated down the road if I got pulled over for anything. I would have an outstanding warrant for my arrest without my knowledge. Rest assured, I have a signed letter from the judge in my car in case I get pulled over. So yes, it’s a big honkin deal to have the ticket signed. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/152 "2009-06-11T20:51:42Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > No. I’m not offering anything as as an ultimate can’t touch me argument. I’m merely pointing out that if anyone at any time can declare a law null and void, then there isn’t much point having a discussion about whether a cop behaved appropriately. Don’t you agree? How can any cop ever defend any action if all one has to do is assert that the law in question is bad and therefore not to be followed/ How would that fly if I were to burgle your house? Should I be able to claim that I should not be arrested because burglary laws are wrong? Cops should be able to use good judgement to ensure the optimal possible outcome of each individual situation. Now I understand they’re only human and they’re gonna fuck up now and then, but this guy fucked up BAD in my opinion. I’m sure the law has its uses but it should not have been applied in this case. There was absolutely no way she was getting away scot-free seeing as she was on video, and the cop knew that. He needlessly escalated the situation into something very, very dangerous and potentially deadly. And not that it’s ultra-relevant but is it SOP in Texas for officers to go to the driver’s side on highway stops? Most cops are going to the passenger side on busy highway stops these days. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/153 "2009-06-11T20:53:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How would you like to get arrested for failure to appear in court because an officer wrote up a bunch of bullshit tickets? I’d ask for the tape, which in this case would prove it was a legit ticket. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/154 "2009-06-11T20:53:32Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Ah, so you reserve the right to taunt me.. Did I write that? No. See my post on those pesky “archaic” laws for an example of what I mean. > [@Cisco](#): > > No, sorry, I do not think you have that right here in this forum. I’ll wait on a ruling. I don’t think I’ve crossed a line. > [@Cisco](#): > > And an argument is not “illogical” just because “whole bean” disagrees with it. Never said it was. I’ve done more than just “disagree.” And it ain’t just me, pal. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/155 "2009-06-11T20:54:23Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > To be honest, no. As a law, it’s nonsensical. What purpose does it serve? I imagine it serves as a, “I have notified you of the infraction I’ve accused you of and told you to show up at court and whatever other legal bullshit I’m supposed to say.” If you don’t like it, may I suggest you not drive in Texas. I could go either way on the law, but that silly bitch in the video chose to refuse to sign. And she knew that the result of refusing to sign means she gets to go to see a judge now. Sign or see a judge, if she didn’t want to see a judge, why didn’t she sign? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/156 "2009-06-11T20:54:45Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Never said it was. I’ve done more than just “disagree.” And it ain’t just me, pal. Ah, _ad populum_. So by that standard you’re wrong too. Woohoo! ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/157 "2009-06-11T20:55:13Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I’d ask for the tape, which in this case would prove it was a legit ticket. cause on the tape, you’ll probably be able to read the ticket, as it appeared when it was given to the speeder - bulletproof. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/158 "2009-06-11T20:57:50Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Ah, _ad populum_. So by that standard you’re wrong too. Woohoo! Nope, but way to focus on the throwaway line. Bonus points for the Latin. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/159 "2009-06-11T20:59:46Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > cause on the tape, you’ll probably be able to read the ticket, as it appeared when it was given to the speeder - bulletproof. So out of one side of your mouth, you’re saying cops should be respected and obeyed at all times, no matter what, and out of the other, you’re saying that they’re the type of people who would make up elaborate schemes to ticket people for stuff they didn’t do— schemes that include pulling them over for stuff they really did do. And I’m illogical. Gotcha. Anybody wanna take a stab at why a process server’s word is worth more than a police officer’s + a camera’s? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/160 "2009-06-11T21:01:09Z")
By the way, I think it’s a good law off-camera. On-camera it’s silly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417.md?page=9)