# Texas Cop Tasers Granny **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417 "2009-06-11T04:23:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/161 "2009-06-11T21:02:44Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > So, does physically subduing. Ever heard of positional asphyxia? Officers are also at risk of injury during physical subduing. Do you know how much blunt force is required to break a nose? Even a well-placed 72-year-old elbow can manage that without a great deal of effort. There’s a lot more technique involved in physically subduing someone and a greater risk of doing it wrong and hurting the person you’re subduing and/or getting hurt yourself. > > I don’t blame cops for choosing the safer method. Frankly, if he’d physically forced her arrest without the taser and her arm was broken, you’d all be crying the same damn thing and whinging about how irresponsible he was to wrench her arm to the extent it broke, regardless of the fact that old people are much more susceptible to bone breaks at much less pressure. Perhaps, he considered that, too. I could not find any statistics on the number of people who have died in custody of positional asphyxia (and yes, I have head of it, thanks) I humbly suggest however, that the officer probably did not need to use a restraint technique that carried this level of danger. > [@](#): > > Sixty-one people died in 2005 after being shocked by law enforcement agency Tasers, a 27 percent increase from 2004’s tally of 48 deaths, finds an Amnesty International study released today. [Cite](http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?lang=e&id=ENGUSA20060328001) You are certainly correct that police are choosing a safer method of restraint - safer for them, not for the public. Tasers have their uses. It is apparent however that they are frequently over-used, when other techniques such as “talking” could be used (cf Robert Dziekanski). Tasers are also frequently used improperly, as “come along” devices, or simply used when an officer is pissed at a suspect and wants to teach them a lesson. In this case, it is of course easy to play armchair quarterback (cop) and we were not in the officer’s shoes. I really do feel however that training has slipped recently, and officers are far too quick to taser a suspect when other techniques would be far, far safer for everyone involved. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/162 "2009-06-11T21:06:28Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > By the way, I think it’s a good law off-camera. On-camera it’s silly. What if the camera malfunctioned, unbeknownst to the officer? Where’s his proof then? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/163 "2009-06-11T21:08:00Z")
I think the problem that some of us have with this scenario is that, while when explained, the reasons for this incident all make logical sense - speed and refuse to sign the ticket, you go to jail; refuse to obey officer intent on arresting you, get tasered – the _outcome_ (tasering & jailing foul-mouthed granny) seems to be disproportionate to the _purpose_ of the enforcement (controlling speeding). To make a possibly bad analogy, it is as if the cop caught some kid jaywalking, and when the kid mouths off and tries to run, shoots him in the leg and arrests him for attempting to flee the scene of the crime and resisting arrest. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/164 "2009-06-11T21:10:31Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > So out of one side of your mouth, you’re saying cops should be respected and obeyed at all times, no matter what, and out of the other, you’re saying that they’re the type of people who would make up elaborate schemes to ticket people for stuff they didn’t do— schemes that include pulling them over for stuff they really did do. And I’m illogical. Gotcha.? I’ve never written anything remotely close to, “cops should be respected and obeyed at all times, no matter what.” At this point, you’ve stooped to dishonesty. > [@Cisco](#): > > Anybody wanna take a stab at why a process server’s word is worth more than a police officer’s + a camera’s? Could the same person tell me the jurisidctions in which process servers serve criminal warrants? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/165 "2009-06-11T21:13:27Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > What if the camera malfunctioned, unbeknownst to the officer? Where’s his proof then? Then - GULP - a speeder gets away. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/166 "2009-06-11T21:22:02Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > I’ve never written anything remotely close to, “cops should be respected and obeyed at all times, no matter what.” Then what did this mean? > [@](#): > > Right, better he chat her up in oncoming traffic till she has to pee, get’s hungry or Matlock comes on. That, or let her learn the invaluable lesson that old people, along with naked wizards, don’t get traffic tickets if they don’t want them - let that shit get out of the knitting circle and there’ll be a highway full of Crown Vic’s at unmanageable speeds - at least they’ll be off the road by dusk, at which time every Piccadilly will become a den of lawlessness. In response to me saying the cop escalated the situation. Was it not a smartass way of saying she should’ve obeyed? Looks like it to me. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/167 "2009-06-11T21:22:58Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > An argument is not “illogical” just because “whole bean” disagrees with it. Yes, but an argument can be “illogical” AND **whole bean** disagree with it. It’s both! **whole bean** , you have reduced him to dismissing the law as “archaic” and asserting the officer should be selectively applying it. It’s the sweet smell of Win and you should take that and go in peace. You know you’re never going to get him to agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/168 "2009-06-11T21:27:45Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Yes, but an argument can be “illogical” AND **whole bean** disagree with it. It’s both! > > **whole bean** , you have reduced him to dismissing the law as “archaic” and asserting the officer should be selectively applying it. It’s the sweet smell of Win and you should take that and go in peace. You know you’re never going to get him to agree with you. I guess you’re right. But I can’t leave wihtout at least saying this. **Cisco** , three words - no matter what. UUUghgh. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/169 "2009-06-11T21:32:50Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > **whole bean** , you have reduced him to dismissing the law as “archaic” and asserting the officer should be selectively applying it. It’s the sweet smell of Win and you should take that and go in peace. You know you’re never going to get him to agree with you. _Of course_ I’m not going to agree. I disagree! And I have no problem with my argument being reduced to what you say. You said all this like it’s somehow a bad thing or makes me look bad. It’s not and it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/170 "2009-06-11T21:33:52Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > I guess you’re right. But I can’t leave wihtout at least saying this. **Cisco** , three words - no matter what. UUUghgh. I have no idea what that means, but my guess is you can’t leave, full stop. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/171 "2009-06-11T21:43:10Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > You said all this like it’s somehow a bad thing or makes me look bad. It’s not and it doesn’t. We could ask the refs except there aren’t any. Suffice to say mileage varies. Widely. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/172 "2009-06-11T21:46:04Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Suffice to say mileage varies. Widely. I said as much earlier in this thread. Oh, or was that just another jab? Nice :rolleyes:. Edit: I thought you meant mileage varies on THE TOPIC, but I realize you were talking about whether or not I look bad, right? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/173 "2009-06-11T21:52:24Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I’d ask for the tape, which in this case would prove it was a legit ticket. You’d be asking for it in a jail cell. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/174 "2009-06-11T21:58:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You’d be asking for it in a jail cell. You’re stipulating _gross_ malice and manipulation of the system, which an officer who just didn’t give a shit could accomplish just as easily right now with or without this law. I do not think most states have this law. I’m sure not all states have this law. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/175 "2009-06-11T22:05:53Z")
Ah, [according to this](http://www.speedingticketcentral.com/speeding-ticket-urban-legends.html), Texas is the ONLY state that has this law. So, going off of whole bean’s ad populum standard, I win in a landslide! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/176 "2009-06-11T22:12:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > To be honest, no. As a law, it’s nonsensical. What purpose does it serve? It’s a promise to appear in court. They’re required to give you notice of the date you’re supposed to appear in court, and in return you make a written promise to appear on that date as a condition of going on your way. It’s supposed to cut down on people who fail to appear in court claiming they didn’t know that they were supposed to. Ironically, speeding is one of only two traffic offenses that aren’t arrestable if the person makes a written promise to appear, so if she had signed the ticket she couldn’t have been arrested, but because she refused she had to be arrested. Relevant code: TEX. TRANS. CODE § 543.005. PROMISE TO APPEAR; RELEASE. To secure release, the person arrested must make a written promise to appear in court by signing the written notice prepared by the arresting officer. The signature may be obtained on a duplicate form or on an electronic device capable of creating a copy of the signed notice. The arresting officer shall retain the paper or electronic original of the notice and deliver the copy of the notice to the person arrested. The officer shall then promptly release the person from custody. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/177 "2009-06-11T22:21:39Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > It’s a promise to appear in court. They’re required to give you notice of the date you’re supposed to appear in court, and in return you make a written promise to appear on that date as a condition of going on your way. Other jurisdictions seem to get by without this. It serves no useful purpose over the much simpler, and less-likely-to-result-in-a-confrontation, system of saying “Here’s your ticket. If you sign the part that says you want to fight it, then you’ll get a court date. If not, you have to pay it in thirty days no matter what.” Then the person being cited can tear the ticket up if they like. They still have to pay it. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/178 "2009-06-11T22:24:18Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > So essentially you all think it’s ok to rough up, scream at, and shock an old lady for talking back to a poor little defensless cop who is just doing his job? :rolleyes: He should’ve dropped a copy of the ticket into her cab and walked away. He had her on camera. I didn’t realize tasers were intended to force politeness. Apparently, you do not grasp a basic concept: a traffic stop is an arrest. You are not free to leave at any time. State laws allow the officer to release someone on their own recognizance, but they have to have signed a written promise to appear before a magistrate. If they refuse to sign that promise, the officer has no choice but to take them before the magistrate right then and there. During the time when I was a deputy sheriff, I only had one person refuse to sign a ticket. I explained what was going to happen if he didn’t. He continued to refuse and I went to cuff him. We didn’t have tasers back then, so when he fought back, I maced him. He continued to fight me until I drilled him in the solar plexus with the butt of my nightstick. I then cuffed him, called a wrecker for his car, took him to jail and charged him with speeding and aggravated assault on a peace officer. His hippopotamus mouth overloaded his hummingbird ass and got him in a lot more trouble than he was already in. Same with grandma in this case. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/179 "2009-06-11T22:25:57Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Ah, [according to this](http://www.speedingticketcentral.com/speeding-ticket-urban-legends.html), Texas is the ONLY state that has this law. So, going off of whole bean’s ad populum standard, I win in a landslide! 🙂 You’re making this hard to walk away from: 1. I have never sought to win by popular vote, if that’s all you took from my posts, you’ve not read them very well. 2. we’re talking about a Texas cop , enforcing a Texas law, so you’re arguement regarding this cops conduct will be analyzed in that context, as it has been (and shown to be illogical). Were we speaking of someother state, you would have a point, as we’re not, you don’t. Do you by any chance have an AM talk radio show? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417/180 "2009-06-11T22:30:05Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Other jurisdictions seem to get by without this. It serves no useful purpose over the much simpler, and less-likely-to-result-in-a-confrontation, system of saying “Here’s your ticket. If you sign the part that says you want to fight it, then you’ll get a court date. If not, you have to pay it in thirty days no matter what.” Then the person being cited can tear the ticket up if they like. They still have to pay it. I’m not defending it, just throwing it out there. Most everybody here has asked a cop or state trooper while getting a ticket “what happens to people who don’t sign it?” and heard “we have no choice but to arrest them,” so even if it is silly or archaic very few people make that their particular windmill to tilt at. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-cop-tasers-granny/499417.md?page=10)