# Texas Grand Jury indicts Cheney, Gonzalez **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387 "2008-11-19T00:18:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/1 "2008-11-19T00:18:58Z")
[Link.](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/11/18/cheney-gonale-indicted/) No other confirmation yet, but this raises some interesting possibilities. šŸ˜ƒ Itā€™s a state indictment, so Bush canā€™t pardon them, can he? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/2 "2008-11-19T00:31:46Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Itā€™s a state indictment, so Bush canā€™t pardon them, can he? No, he canā€™t. Of all the things for which Cheney or Gonzalez might have been indicted . . . abuse of prisoners (in the ordinary federal corrections system, not Gitmo) never occurred to me. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/3 "2008-11-19T00:56:12Z")
I canā€™t see where it specifies whether it was a state or federal grand jury. Iā€™d think a federal grand jury would have jurisdiction of the treatment of prisoners at a federal prison. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/4 "2008-11-19T00:59:42Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > I canā€™t see where it specifies whether it was a state or federal grand jury. Iā€™d think a federal grand jury would have jurisdiction of the treatment of prisoners at a federal prison. Depending on the charges, the state might have concurrent jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/5 "2008-11-19T01:31:10Z")
[CNN](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/) has more. Sounds like a state indictment and the actions of a disgruntled DA. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/6 "2008-11-19T03:17:50Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > [CNN](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/) has more. Sounds like a state indictment and the actions of a disgruntled DA. Rogue DA might be a better way to phrase it. This is not going to go anywhere, nor should it. This sounds like semi-normal South Texas craziness to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/7 "2008-11-19T15:50:16Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > [CNN](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/) has more. Sounds like a state indictment and the actions of a disgruntled DA. From the cite: > [@](#): > > The Associated Press reported that the indictment stems from Cheneyā€™s investment in the Vanguard Group ā€” an investment management company that reportedly has interests in the prison companies in charge of the detention centers. It also charges Gonzales halted an investigation into abuse at the detention centers while he was attorney general. Cheneyā€™s involvement in the purported criminal activity sounds a bit remote to sustain a criminal charge. The Gonzales information could conceivably describe actual criminal activity, though. I imagine both will seek to quash the indictments. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/8 "2008-11-19T16:08:36Z")
The grand jury system needs to be reformed. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/9 "2008-11-19T16:29:04Z")
Iā€™ve seen this indictment mentioned in a few different places in the lefty blogosphere. The unanimous reaction has been, ā€œthis guyā€™s a nutcase - ignore him.ā€ My sideā€™s too-good-to-be-true-ometers work far better than those of the righty blogs, Iā€™m glad to say. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/10 "2008-11-19T17:20:49Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Iā€™ve seen this indictment mentioned in a few different places in the lefty blogosphere. The unanimous reaction has been, ā€œthis guyā€™s a nutcase - ignore him.ā€ > > My sideā€™s too-good-to-be-true-ometers work far better than those of the righty blogs, Iā€™m glad to say. But but butā€¦ Iā€™ve been told by a reliable source right here on the Dope that the Straight Dope is essentially the lefty equivalent to the Free Republic. Therefore, we should be frothing at the mouth, and talking about how Cheney and Gonzalez will soon be swinging from the nearest light pole! Come on people! Get with the program! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/11 "2008-11-19T18:07:29Z")
Now that the DA is gruntled ,we still have to deal with the legalities. I hope it sticks ,but would be surprised if it did. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/12 "2008-11-19T18:10:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > But but butā€¦ Iā€™ve been told by a reliable source right here on the Dope that the Straight Dope is essentially the lefty equivalent to the Free Republic. Therefore, we should be frothing at the mouth, and talking about how Cheney and Gonzalez will soon be swinging from the nearest light pole! > > Come on people! Get with the program! Iā€™m [Dennis Kucinich](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/10/AR2008061003087.html), and I approved this post. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/13 "2008-11-19T18:17:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Iā€™m [Dennis Kucinich](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/10/AR2008061003087.html), and I approved this post. Damnit! And here I thought we had a shot to get an insiderā€™s perspective on Elizabeth. My quest continues, although my hope is lessened. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/14 "2008-11-19T18:21:06Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Itā€™s a state indictment, so Bush canā€™t pardon them, can he? Not to be totally pedantic, but he canā€™t pardon anybody until theyā€™ve been convicted. Or am I wrong? Can the Prez perform preemptive pardoning, as it were? ---
**Author:** ![Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/15 "2008-11-19T18:24:33Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Not to be totally pedantic, but he canā€™t pardon anybody until theyā€™ve been convicted. > > Or am I wrong? Can the Prez perform preemptive pardoning, as it were? Remember Ford/Nixon? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/16 "2008-11-19T18:26:00Z")
Good point. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/17 "2008-11-19T18:43:37Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Damnit! And here I thought we had a shot to get an insiderā€™s perspective on Elizabeth. My quest continues, although my hope is lessened. > > Enjoy, > Steven She came to earth on a [flying saucer](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2007/10/ufos_and_alien_life.html), but donā€™t tell anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/18 "2008-11-19T18:51:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > She came to earth on a [flying saucer](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2007/10/ufos_and_alien_life.html), but donā€™t tell anyone. Itā€™s better than I imagined! Thank you, thank you, thank you! Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/19 "2008-11-19T19:08:58Z")
Okay, can someone provide the Cliff Notes version of the indictment? It looks like they are saying: Cheney invested a bazillion into the prison corporation, then the corporation started getting huge federal contracts (but it looks more like he invested into some kind of mutual fund and the _fund_ is the one with a few fingers in the prison pie). Okay, I can see how if he sort-of-vaguley owns the prison, and heā€™s sort of influenced the awarding of contracts to the prison, there would be a conflict of interest. But I donā€™t understand the logic of the part that goes: ā€œCheney is accused of contributing to the neglect of federal immigration detainees by contracting for-profit prisons.ā€ I donā€™t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387/20 "2008-11-19T19:27:17Z")
As much as I would cream myself to see Cheney and Gonzalez indicted for anything, Iā€™m having a very hard time working up any glee over this. It sounds like this is a mere nuisance for Cheney and Gonzalez, resulting in some fine which theyā€™ll pay with their lunch money. They wonā€™t be going to jail over this. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-grand-jury-indicts-cheney-gonzalez/473387.md?page=2)