# Texas gun group "simulates" Paris attack... result? Really hard to kill gunmen even if armed. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-gun-group-simulates-paris-attack-result-really-hard-to-kill-gunmen-even-if-armed/709906 "2015-01-15T17:24:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-gun-group-simulates-paris-attack-result-really-hard-to-kill-gunmen-even-if-armed/709906/141 "2015-01-20T22:22:55Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Nope. You are wrong. This never really worked for Dio and, I expect, it won’t work for you. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-gun-group-simulates-paris-attack-result-really-hard-to-kill-gunmen-even-if-armed/709906/142 "2015-01-20T22:26:00Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > This never really worked for Dio and, I expect, it won’t work for you. It already has. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-gun-group-simulates-paris-attack-result-really-hard-to-kill-gunmen-even-if-armed/709906/143 "2015-01-20T22:26:26Z")
Even if a Wal-Mart is situated in a rural area, surely the inside of the store is “urban”, at least for purposes of this question? Or are people routinely attacked by rattlesnakes and mountain lions inside of Wal-Marts? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-gun-group-simulates-paris-attack-result-really-hard-to-kill-gunmen-even-if-armed/709906/144 "2015-01-21T02:42:59Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t believe you. No one spends $600-700 to carry around a handgun just because they can. I suppose some do it just to intimidate others. I do. I carry and do what I can to support gun ownership and carry because the alternative would, inevitably and inescapably, end up being the people privileged to carry arms saying “shut up and do what you’re told, peasant” to those who aren’t. And since I conceal-carry I’m not intimidating anyone because they have no reason to think I’m armed. It would be a hell of a lot more convenient if I didn’t have to conceal, but I do it to not rub it in the face of the gun-phobic. The anti’s arguments fall flat because they always end up insisting that gun owners are something we know we’re not. When you’re flat-out ignorantly wrong about the people you’re talking about, why should we listen to you? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-gun-group-simulates-paris-attack-result-really-hard-to-kill-gunmen-even-if-armed/709906/145 "2015-01-21T03:02:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even if a Wal-Mart is situated in a rural area, surely the inside of the store is “urban”, at least for purposes of this question? Or are people routinely attacked by rattlesnakes and mountain lions inside of Wal-Marts? I was kind of thinking on your line until it occurred to me that shopping at a Wal-Mart in bumfuck nowhere in between a couple of two horse towns might have a different feel than the suburban Chicago one. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-gun-group-simulates-paris-attack-result-really-hard-to-kill-gunmen-even-if-armed/709906/146 "2015-01-22T08:27:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even if a Wal-Mart is situated in a rural area, surely the inside of the store is “urban”, at least for purposes of this question? Or are people routinely attacked by rattlesnakes and mountain lions inside of Wal-Marts? Polar bears too. People use guns against polar bears. The military’s honor guard also uses guns: they even use them in urban environments. Actors use guns. Museums use guns. There are many uses of guns. Also, lots of people talk to themselves on the subway because they can. Some of them also shower. On occasion. /parody Admittedly, some carry because they think they are doing their part to advance a well-regulated militia. I tend to agree with George Washington: while militias are great at war crimes, they are unreliable at fighting battles. They tend to show up, grab their equipment, and leave before the snow melts. They have about as much to do with democracy as the Sturmabteilung or any other military irregular you read about it in the news. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-gun-group-simulates-paris-attack-result-really-hard-to-kill-gunmen-even-if-armed/709906/147 "2015-01-22T13:39:38Z")
[QUOTE=simster] Knives are tools… [/QUOTE] So are step ladders, but I don’t feel compelled to carry one with me every where I go on the off chance that Walmart’s rain gutters will have leaves in them. > [@Lumpy](#): > > I carry and do what I can to support gun ownership and carry because the alternative would, inevitably and inescapably, end up being the people privileged to carry arms saying “shut up and do what you’re told, peasant” to those who aren’t. > [@](#): > > The anti’s arguments fall flat because they always end up insisting that gun owners are something we know we’re not. The irony of these two statements is inescapable. Was it intentional? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-gun-group-simulates-paris-attack-result-really-hard-to-kill-gunmen-even-if-armed/709906/148 "2015-01-22T14:27:31Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The irony of these two statements is inescapable. Was it intentional? The public is already angry about police acting like bullies; you want to make their status as a privileged class official? The faith the gun-control crowd has in our police and military astonishes me; that if given a permanent monopoly on weapons they would refrain (for the first time in recorded human history) from turning into an elite that would give orders and expect the “peasants” to obey them or else. Power goes to people’s heads, and a monopoly on power invariably gets used. You say our “culture of democracy” would prevent such a thing? The citizens of the Roman Republic thought so too, until the Rubicon was crossed. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-gun-group-simulates-paris-attack-result-really-hard-to-kill-gunmen-even-if-armed/709906/149 "2015-01-22T15:06:16Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The public is already angry about police acting like bullies; you want to make their status as a privileged class official? You think carrying solves the problem ? That shooting cops (or pulling your gun on cops, or the notion that you might be armed) makes them nice ? Plenty of brutal cops, not to mention their cheedleaders here and elsewhere, justify their rotten behaviour with the notion that “hey, he couldn’t know whether the nig… the suspect was armed or not and therefore is perfectly justified in shooting them 27 times in the back of the head”. An armed society isn’t polite, it’s paranoid. > [@](#): > > You say our “culture of democracy” would prevent such a thing? The citizens of the Roman Republic thought so too, until the Rubicon was crossed. Actually Sulla was the one who breached the “no swords in town” rule. And he did so because he was \*against \*corrupt, oligarchic old Rome becoming more democratic (well, and not just that, it’s complicated, but that shorthand will suffice for now) ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-gun-group-simulates-paris-attack-result-really-hard-to-kill-gunmen-even-if-armed/709906/150 "2015-01-23T01:03:09Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > \*\*\*ONE \*\*\*defender armed with a (presumably holstered) handgun is suddenly attacked in a closed room by two men with automatic weapons? I don’t care if you’re the national quick-draw champion, that’s unsurvivable. The only lesson I take away from this is automatic weapons are great for clearing a room at close quarters. > > I’m reminded of [an ABC 20/20 segment](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=513642) devoted to handguns, which set up a no-win situation for a would-be defender. And this right here says it all, really; too bad it was completely ignored. One CCL holder with bog-standard handgun versus two assailants with multiple fully-automatic weapons: AK-47 assault \*_rifles_ and Skorpion submachine pistols? Yeah, I’m thinking that this is one of those situations where the phrase “quantity has a quality all its own” was coined to describe. And I don’t think that it was what Concealed Carry was enacted to stop here in the U.S. Without the CCL holder having Hollywood on his side, he could be the most badass, real-life member of the most badass Special Forces Unit in the world, and is _still_ most likely going out in a body bag. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-gun-group-simulates-paris-attack-result-really-hard-to-kill-gunmen-even-if-armed/709906.md?page=7)