# Texas national guard vs. Border Patrol standoff - begining of a new civil war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 21, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440 "2024-01-21T16:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/61 "2024-01-23T22:57:42Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > You forgot the biggest: That Biden stole the election. > > (I don’t know if the GOP technically continues to spread it, but plenty of GOP voters continue to believe it.) Yes, that last one is more individuals, not “official ™ GOP Propaganda”. > [@Smapti](#): > > At this point I’m not even convinced that “open borders” would be a bad idea. All we really need is customs and drug interdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/62 "2024-01-25T16:39:29Z")
And the heat gets turned up: > **[Joe Biden Faces Growing Calls to Federalize Texas National Guard](https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-faces-growing-calls-federalize-texas-national-guard-1863839)** > > Democratic lawmakers have called on Biden to federalize the Texas National Guard as the border standoff intensifies. > In a response on Wednesday, Abbott [released the letter](https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1750235544951349275/photo/1) reiterating his claim that illegal migration constitutes an “invasion” of Texas and in response said he had invoked “Texas’s constitutional authority to defend and protect itself,” which “is the supreme law of the land and supersedes any federal statutes to the contrary.” ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/63 "2024-01-25T16:42:18Z")
Yep. You’re at the “The Supreme court has made a ruling, now let them enforce it” stage of the process. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/64 "2024-01-25T20:20:48Z")
I wonder what the four justices in the minority think of this defiance. I can see them being torn on how to feel; despite agreeing with Texas, this is still _their_ power being called into question. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/65 "2024-01-25T20:26:46Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > The organization in question is the Texas Military Department. Can someone remind Texas that it is no longer an independent country. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/66 "2024-01-26T00:16:22Z")
If Texas wants to try leaving the Union again I say let them go. ---
**Author:** ![deltogre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deltogre/32/5041_2.png) [@deltogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltogre)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/67 "2024-01-26T00:23:50Z")
Tonight on NPR’s Marketplace, Ky had an expert on (can’t recall who) that said, not only are we in for a soft landing, economically speaking, her “back of the envelope” math worked out that something like a .25% of the growth in the last quarter was due to immigration. Well, shit. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/68 "2024-01-26T00:37:27Z")
I look at it as, let them try. Some things they need to consider. The natural resources (petroleum reserves) they consider to be “theirs” is actually owned by either US corporations (probably incorporated in Delaware) or multinationals. Regardless, they are not owned by the State of Texas. Of course, they could nationalize the petroleum industry, but that sound an awful lot like socialism. What they say they are trying to avoid by leaving. Nearly all the military equipment and installations in the State of Texas is property of the US Government. Yeah, I think they own the Battleship Texas, but it’s set in concrete and ain’t going nowhere. Most of the manufacturing companies operating in Texas are owned by out of state corporations. If Texas was to try to leave, that equipment would be loaded on semis and trucked out. Nearly all the Texans who work for the federal government would likely leave Texas before they gave up their federal retirement packages. I don’t think the HR rules cover insurrection. It goes without saying that US Senators and Congressmen would be first in line. Oh, for the regular working stiffs, the deferred taxes on IRAs, 401Ks, and other retirement funds will be due in full the moment they decide they will no longer pay US income taxes. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/69 "2024-01-26T01:14:43Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Can someone remind Texas that it is no longer an independent country. As a Texan, nothing would please me more than someone reminding Greg Abbott and Ken Paxton of this fact. Unfortunately the ghosts of Abraham Lincoln and Dwight Eisenhower are unavailable. It remains to be seen if Biden has the courage to do what his predecessors did. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/70 "2024-01-26T02:03:52Z")
Hmmm, Texas has 40 Electoral College votes. Adios amigos, it’s been good to know ya. As they leave, we can give D.C. statehood to keep the ol’ stars and stripes in balance. Win win. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/71 "2024-01-26T02:23:56Z")
Perhaps the people of Texas will stage some sort of mass protest to express their displeasure with the situation. Ha ha. Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/72 "2024-01-26T02:26:12Z")
I started a thread about Texas seceding here: [https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-texas-seceded-how-far-up-shit-creek-would-they-be) ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/73 "2024-01-26T03:00:54Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > If Texas wants to try leaving the Union again I say let them go. If Texas wants to try leaving the Union again I say stomp them harder than last time. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/74 "2024-01-26T03:59:35Z")
Texas provided more votes for Biden than did New York. Let’s not start talking about what “Texas” wants like this state is some sort of hivemind. The Texas Democratic Party has been useless for decades, but there are millions of Texans who think Abbott is a shitheel. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/75 "2024-01-26T04:53:06Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Local officials are not required to step aside and defer to the Feds. That is what the courts are for and whatever issue can be addressed there and dragged out for a long time. From what little I know this sounds about right on the face of it but only in the case of normal everyday things like speeding tickets or domestic battery calls or murder. I think it might be different though if the Feds were there specifically to perform a task only appropriate for a federal force. A (crazy hypothetical) example might be if Mexican regular army were to launch a cross-border attack into Texas. ISTM that would certainly be the federal DoD’s domain. If the Texas State Guard told the US Army: _“We got this! Y’all need to git offa our land!”_ The US Army would laugh at them, call them reindeer names, then ignore them and proceed with their mission. Seems to me that similarly, it’s the ultimate responsibility of the Feds to protect the nation’s borders from illegal entry by unauthorized foreign nationals. However If the Feds refused to interdict then I would think Texas has the right to act against illegal border-crossers. In the OP case it looks like the Feds (ICE I guess?) are there trying to perform their duties and are being physically blocked by the state of Texas. That doesn’t seem to be Konstitutionally Kosher, (see: Supremacy Clause, The). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/76 "2024-01-26T06:30:32Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > I look at it as, let them try. > > Some things they need to consider. Size of Texas state guard-= 1,678 men Size of US Armed service= 1.4 million. So far the shortest war has been like 40 minutes. This would set a new record. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/77 "2024-01-26T06:46:19Z")
Sounds good until you understand how many of those 1.4 are sympathetic to Texas and hate democrats. A large percentage of the military comes from Trump strongholds. I’m not saying it’s enough to let Texas win. It’s Enough to make things very messy. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/78 "2024-01-26T14:38:49Z")
Trump wants other states to send in their troops to support Texas. That sounds more than slightly alarming. And not great for the Border Patrol. > **[Trump encourages all states to send their troops to Texas to help Greg Abbott](https://www.rawstory.com/trump-send-troops-abbott/)** > > In a two-part rant on Truth Social Thursday evening, former President Donald Trump called on Republican-controlled states to send National Guard troops to Texas to help Gov. Greg Abbott repel a supposed "invasion.""When I was President, we had the... ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/79 "2024-01-26T14:51:35Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Trump wants other states to send in their troops to support Texas. That sounds more than slightly alarming. Okay, that just _has_ to be promoting an insurrection, right? Everyone has to see that now, right? Right? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/80 "2024-01-26T14:58:48Z")
> [@X.L.Lent](#): > > I’m not trying to cause trouble with this question but this is making me a bit > nervous about the future of our country. Trust me, I’ve been nervous about the future of our country for several years. I’m thinking that the feds will stand down and let Texas do what it wants. In fact, were I President of the United States, I would write an executive order mandating that course of action govern all potential conflicts in the border states. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440.md?page=5)