# Texas national guard vs. Border Patrol standoff - begining of a new civil war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 21, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440 "2024-01-21T16:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/101 "2024-01-26T18:35:06Z")
The border thing is an orchestrated, coordinated and fabricated issue. Senate Republicans have said that the agreement that is almost completely hammered out in the Senate is the _most_ conservative border bill that they will be able to get. Anything in the future requiring 60 votes in the Senate will not be as good for the GOP aims regarding immigration. This was just about ready to go and Trump ordered his goons to block the agreement because he wanted to run on the issue for the election. They are willing to let what they call a crisis and pull their hair our about daily go for another YEAR just to use it for politics. This is their plan and it is working perfectly on 'ol Sam. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/102 "2024-01-26T18:44:05Z")
I’m talking about the resources he is spending now to take down the fencing that Texas has put up. The notion that he wants to close the border but just doesn’t have the resources is complete bullshit. If it was a resource issue the feds would be be ecstatic that the states are willing to do the job themselves. Instead, the Biden administration is fighting them to stop border wall construction. Biden wants those migrants coming through. He sold for scrap all the uninstalled border fencing built under Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/103 "2024-01-26T18:52:34Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > He sold for scrap all the uninstalled border fencing built under Trump. That would be so cool if true. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/104 "2024-01-26T18:53:31Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Biden was NOT trying to get funding to close the border. He was trying to get more funding so that more illegals could be processed. He’s fighting Texas, which is actually trying to close the border. Biden is spending federal funds to keep the border from being closed, and risking a clash with southern states to do it. Okay, I think I’ve figured out the problem here. Everyone is using the word “closed” differently here. It’s clear that #Sam\_Stone wants the border _physically closed_. Actually, physically prevent anyone from crossing it without permission, or any other way. And that’s really just not physically possible. When the rest of us are talking about “closed borders”, we mean “Make sure that we can find, detain, and process anyone trying to cross”. That’s still pretty frigging hard, but not, probably, physically impossible, particularly if the people coming across the border understood that there were processes in place, and that they wouldn’t just be summarily deported or killed without having a chance to make their case. A physical wall won’t stop illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants have been overcoming physical barriers for decades now. So any such physical barrier must be supplemented by patrolling officers - which is what Biden is trying to get funding for, among other things. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/105 "2024-01-26T19:00:20Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I’m talking about the resources he is spending now to take down the fencing that Texas has put up. First of all, this is chump change. Second of all, it’s not within a state’s purview to close the border and letting Texas do this would be a terrible precedent. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Biden wants those migrants coming through. While I saw an estimate that these immigrants increased the GDP by 0.25%, which is impressive, I don’t believe Biden wants them to come through – it’s a political headache for him, and for his blue state supporters. And, as a normal human with empathy, I’m sure he doesn’t like seeing fellow humans being treated as poorly as Texas is treating them. If you have a cite that Biden wants immigrants coming through, please provide it or retract this claim. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/106 "2024-01-26T19:09:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Does Biden really want to trigger a constitutional and a federal/state crisis to prevent the border from being defended? Does Abbot really want to trigger a constitutional and a federal/state crisis just so he can continue to drown children in a river with razor wire? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/107 "2024-01-26T19:25:09Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > There are 800 ‘gotaways’ per DAY coming across the southern border. Millions have crossed the border unvetted. Why didn’t the wall stop them? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/108 "2024-01-26T19:26:22Z")
Cite for anything you’re saying, please. I don’t accept anything you say without a cite. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/109 "2024-01-26T19:28:14Z")
Anyway, back to the main subject, I didn’t think this would be that big of a deal – SCOTUS sided with the administration and that would put an end to it. But, apparently, Texas is just ignoring SCOTUS and Trump is angling for a civil war or something (who knows what’s happening in his addled brain?), so maybe this could turn into something bigger. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/110 "2024-01-26T19:31:07Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This isn’t just about Texas. Many other states are joining with Texas in supporting the border, some offering to send their own national gurd tomshore up Texas’ efforts. > > Does Biden really want to trigger a constitutional and a federal/state crisis to prevent the border from being defended? Why does that administration want to keep the border open so badly? This will cost the Democrats the next election if they don’t change courae. If he wants to keep the border open, he’s doing a really bad job of it……migrant apprehensions and drug seizures are at record highs. [» December 2023 Set a New U.S.-Mexico Border Monthly Migration Record](https://adamisacson.com/december-2023-set-a-new-u-s-mexico-border-monthly-migration-record/#:~:text=Border%20Patrol%20has%20set%20a,flights%20to%20Caracas%20since%20October). > **[Fentanyl Seizures at Border Continue to Spike, Making San Diego a National...](https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/fentanyl-seizures-border-continue-spike-making-san-diego-national-epicenter-fentanyl)** ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/111 "2024-01-26T19:32:38Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > But, apparently, Texas is just ignoring SCOTUS and Trump is angling for a civil war or something (who knows what’s happening in his addled brain?), so maybe this could turn into something bigger. At some point, either one side backs down, or one side tries to arrest the other side. If Texas backs down, that’s great, but so far they’re the ones pushing the limits, so I can’t see that happening. So, once the arrests start, it’s going to get dicey. Can you see either side submitting to arrest quietly? If the Feds back down, then, well, Biden is toast, it’s just the particular details of what kind of toast to be determined. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/112 "2024-01-26T19:35:54Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > If he wants to keep the border open, he’s doing a really bad job of it……migrant apprehensions and drug seizures are at record highs. See, [this is what I was talking about earlier](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/104). Sam doesn’t want them _arrested_, he wants them _physically barred from crossing the border at all_. Telling him that you’re arresting record numbers of people just tells him that you’re letting record numbers physically cross the border\*. \*May not actually be true, but that’s the perception. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/113 "2024-01-26T19:36:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Biden wants those migrants coming through. Just out of curiosity, do you have any theory as to why Biden would want those migrants coming over the border? It doesn’t seem to help him in any way politically. Is it just that its a bad thing and Biden is a bad person and so he automatically wants it. or do you subscribe top the ludicrous theory that they are being bused in to vote illegally. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/114 "2024-01-26T19:42:56Z")
Moderating: It’s difficult to not discuss general border policy while having this specific discussion regarding a potential standoff between the federal government and the State of Texas. Nevertheless, let’s get back to the discussion at hand and leave general border policy discussion for a different thread. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/115 "2024-01-26T19:46:42Z")
> [@"not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I saw a tweet that claimed a good number of states are supporting Texas ignoring the Supreme Court. So why all the MAGA rapture about stacking SCOTUS for their agenda when they could have just ignored it’s rulings on a state by state basis? Or this an exercise in selective ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/116 "2024-01-26T19:55:32Z")
_They_ get to ignore the supreme court. The dirty commie liberals do not. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/117 "2024-01-26T19:57:11Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > So why all the MAGA rapture about stacking SCOTUS for their agenda when they could have just ignored it’s rulings on a state by state basis? But it’s still better to have a ruling in your favor. That way you put the other side in the position of deciding if they want to risk the collapse of civil society to win on that issue. That’s always beneficial, particularly if you _are_ the side that is willing to risk the collapse of civil society. Democrats would almost certainly go along with a bad ruling, in hopes that they could fix it later. The Republicans know the Democrats are incredibly unlikely to just burn everything down. See: Roe vs Wade being overturned. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/118 "2024-01-26T20:03:20Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > But it’s still better to have a ruling in your favor. True, but it’s still “Give us what we want or we’ll burn the place down” Even my 2yos have grown out of that mentality. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/119 "2024-01-26T20:13:02Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > but it’s still “Give us what we want or we’ll burn the place down” Oh yes, without a doubt. That’s been their whole strategy for years now. Every time they play games with the debt ceiling and budget, it’s “Give in or we burn it down.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/120 "2024-01-26T20:14:45Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > > > If he wants to keep the border open, he’s doing a really bad job of it……migrant apprehensions and drug seizures are at record highs. > > See, [this is what I was talking about earlier](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/104). Sam doesn’t want them _arrested_, he wants them _physically barred from crossing the border at all_. Telling him that you’re arresting record numbers of people just tells him that you’re letting record numbers physically cross the border\*. > > \*May not actually be true, but that’s the perception. Detained and arrested are not the same thing. What is happening to them after they are detained? The article Ann posted is about people and vehicles that are otherwise entering the country legally that are fund to have fentanyl. Does that mean we are being more effective or does it mean there is just a hell of a lot more being smuggled? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440.md?page=7)