# Texas national guard vs. Border Patrol standoff - begining of a new civil war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 21, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440 "2024-01-21T16:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/121 "2024-01-26T20:18:37Z")
Moderating: > [@Loach](#): > > Detained and arrested are not the same thing. What is happening to them after they are detained? I think you missed the mod note that said to drop this discussion in this thread. The thread is for specific discussion of a potential impending standoff between the federal government and the State of Texas. General border control discussion belongs in a different thread. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/122 "2024-01-26T20:26:14Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Moderating: > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Detained and arrested are not the same thing. What is happening to them after they are detained? > > I think you missed the mod note that said to drop this discussion in this thread. The thread is for specific discussion of a potential impending standoff between the federal government and the State of Texas. General border control discussion belongs in a different thread. Thanks. Sorry misread what you were modding. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/123 "2024-01-26T20:27:44Z")
No problem. It’s easy to get off track in a discussion like this. Thanks for understanding. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/124 "2024-01-26T20:41:11Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Trust me, I’ve been nervous about the future of our country for several years. I’m thinking that the feds will stand down and let Texas do what it wants. In fact, were I President of the United States, I would write an executive order mandating that course of action govern all potential conflicts in the border states. I think you’re right that this is what will happen, but that doesn’t make it the right course. See Eisenhower vs. Faubus in 1957 for what should happen. Unfortunately Joe Biden isn’t Dwight Eisenhower and John Roberts isn’t Earl Warren. Unlike their predecessors, Biden and Roberts are going to end up allowing Trump to president from the sideline for fear of rocking the boat. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/125 "2024-01-26T20:44:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If anything costs Democrats the next election, it will be the situation at the border. Yes, but not because of those crossing the border. It’ll be because Biden is probably going to cave in and let Abbott (and let’s not kid ourselves, it’s really Trump) get away with defying a SCOTUS ruling without even trying to enforce it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/127 "2024-01-26T21:01:12Z")
My understanding is that the SCOTUS ruling was very narrowly tailored to the razor wire question and didn’t address the larger issues of protecting the border. I don’t think you have to physically close the border. You just have to make it clear that anyone who crashes the border will be arrested and deported, and there will be no path to citizenship unless you cross legally and properly file for asylum first. Take away the incentive to come, and you don’t need as many physical garriers. But so long as the current catch and release policies are darried out, the border states have no choice but to physically close the border, especially at common entry points. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/128 "2024-01-26T21:15:17Z")
Moderating: > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > My understanding is that the SCOTUS ruling was very narrowly tailored to the razor wire question and didn’t address the larger issues of protecting the border. > > I don’t think you have to physically close the border. You just have to make it clear that anyone who crashes the border will be arrested and deported, and there will be no path to citizenship unless you cross legally and properly file for asylum first. Take away the incentive to come, and you don’t need as many physical garriers. > > But so long as the current catch and release policies are darried out, the border states have no choice but to physically close the border, especially at common entry points. This is a formal warning for failing to heed moderator instructions to not engage in discussion about general border policies in this thread. This is the issue under discussion: > [@X.L.Lent](#): > > Is this going to be the “first shot” of a new civil war? If the US supreme court rules > against Texas and Texas ignores the ruling, keeping it’s national guard at the border, > then what happens? Please make note of it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/129 "2024-01-26T23:05:52Z")
Moderating: After further discussion with moderator staff, @Sam_Stone is banned from making further posts in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/130 "2024-01-27T18:02:24Z")
> **[Russians gleeful over US border crisis: "Texas People's Republic!"](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-texas-united-states-independence-border-crisis-1864311)** > > "We are of course for Texas, the Lone Star State, which has fully earned its right to self-determination," a user wrote. _Russians are sharing their glee on social media over the U.S. border crisis, expressing their support for [the Lone Star State](https://www.newsweek.com/texas-independence-supreme-court-border-ruling-texit-1863124) to declare independence from the United States._ _The Texas Nationalist Movement (TNM), also known as TEXIT, is the largest organization promoting that the state leave the U.S. A [Supreme Court](https://www.newsweek.com/topic/supreme-court) decision on January 22 to allow [federal officials to remove parts of a razor-wire barrier](https://www.newsweek.com/supreme-court-gives-joe-biden-major-win-over-greg-abbott-1862970) that Texas Governor [Greg Abbott](https://www.newsweek.com/topic/greg-abbott) had installed along the border with Mexico to deter illegal migration emboldened the case._ 🤪 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/131 "2024-01-29T12:02:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Why does that administration want to keep the border open so badly? I don’t see this. Unfortunately, Chicago has declared itself a sanctuary city, and immigrants are coming in bus load after bus load after busload. This is causing a lot of problems, by far the least of it is financial. Despite ongoing pleas to the federal government, Biden has allocated zero financial support to Chicago. This from the New York Times: [**Republican controlled House blocks Immigration Deal**](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/26/us/politics/johnson-opposes-border-deal.html) _\> President Biden fought on Friday to save a bipartisan immigration deal from collapse in Congress, vowing to shut down the border if the plan became law even as the Republican speaker pronounced it dead on arrival in the House._ \*\> \* _\> In a written statement that came as Senate negotiators scrambled to finalize a deal that former President Donald J. Trump is pressuring Republicans to oppose, Mr. Biden used his most stringent language yet about the border, declaring it “broken” and in “crisis” and promising to halt migration immediately if Congress sends him the proposal._ ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/132 "2024-01-29T16:58:21Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Nearly all the military equipment and installations in the State of Texas is property of the US Government. Yeah, I think they own the Battleship Texas, but it’s set in concrete and ain’t going nowhere. Nitpicking: The battleship USS Texas is not set in concrete, but was until recently floating in a state park, where it was judged to be in danger of sinking in 2022 and subsequently moved to a drydock, where it is currently midway through a massive restoration project to keep it afloat for a few more decades. (It’s never going to be at [The Ayes of Texas](https://www.fantasticfiction.com/c/daniel-da-cruz/ayes-of-texas.htm) combat level, however.) ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/133 "2024-01-29T17:02:08Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > This is causing a lot of problems, by far the least of it is financial What kind of problems? I’ve been looking for specific issues that the “border crisis” is causing. I’m sure there are all kinds of problems for the people themselves, but for the rest of us? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/134 "2024-01-29T17:12:51Z")
I’m curious too. I live in Chicago and the only problems it’s causing me is hearing other people bitching about all the migrants. Like it has literally zero effect on my life, and we do our best to help with donations and giving/making food where we can. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/135 "2024-01-29T17:25:40Z")
The biggest problem is that it is endless. Hundreds have become thousands that have become tens of thousands. It is not a sustainable solution over time, so it has to be dealt with. They are sleeping on the floors of police stations. Under served minority communities are having facilities taken from them to house these people. School districts have to deal with endless numbers of kids who know no English, test out as completely uneducated when tested in their own language, and require a ton of special services that cost a lot of money that districts don’t have. Also, who knows who is coming across the border? We have all these protections in air travel, but terrorists, etc. can simply land undetected in southern Mexico and Central America and get a bus ride into the United States. Allowing people to have uncontrolled access to our country is ridiculous. Many nations have much stricter immigration laws than we do such as Japan and Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/136 "2024-01-29T17:29:35Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Allowing people to have uncontrolled access to our country is ridiculous. As far as I can tell, we’re not doing this. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/137 "2024-01-29T17:57:56Z")
Change the law then - as near as I can tell, our side of it is following the law as required - and to a point, so are the immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/138 "2024-01-29T18:02:17Z")
You know, it takes quite a bit of money to uproot your family and move from Guatemala and points south, cross the entire length of Mexico, to reach the US. Now, multiply that by tens of thousands. Where did all that money come from? When Americans migrated westward across the US in the nineteenth century, that took quite a bit of money, too. That money came from industrialists in the East, spending their newfound wealth on land and property as the migrants sold everything they owned. That is, the economic expansion of the industrialization of America paid for it. Who is paying the traveling bills for all these migrants? They have to eat and have housing along the way. It had to be coordinated in some manner or thousands would have died from starvation and exposure along the way (not to mention dysentery). Why isn’t the investigative power of the US congress (either Senate or House) trying to find out? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/139 "2024-01-29T18:07:04Z")
ah yes, the great conspiracy - whos paying these people to invade our country? Maybe they are simply scraping by and working together to get here - there are likely plenty of aid organizations that assist along the way as well. Got any evidence there is someone/something nefarious at foot? something that we _need_ to investigate? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/140 "2024-01-29T18:22:54Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > It had to be coordinated in some manner or thousands would have died from starvation and exposure along the way (not to mention dysentery) What makes you say they haven’t? The numbers I see are that last year about 850 died on the Mexico-US border. The number is said to be incomplete and only include those who were identified or processed on US territory. So that’s missing a lot of people along the way, I would think, and I’m guessing many thousands, indeed, have died along the way, but I can’t find any sources with an estimate. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-national-guard-vs-border-patrol-standoff-begining-of-a-new-civil-war/996440/141 "2024-01-29T18:38:02Z")
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