Missed the TABC part…obviously they would have permission due to stipulations of the licence.
Yes. I believe places like a privately held bar, restaurant, casino, nightclub, etc. are called public/private places. That is-- establishments that are privately owned, but where the public (including police and media) is allowed to assemble.
I learned this from the lawyers of a LARGE media company who spoke to me and other journalists about where we can go, and whom we may photograph/record.
it is wrong…most of them have no choice…after all them are addicted…(it is just meant to show that them are busy)…if you want to make it good you kill the predators not the prey
Come back when sober. Or do you speak english as a second language?
For cryin out loud. It is not due to “stipulations of the licence”. Cops may enter a bar that is held open to the public, and the owner may not ask them to leave if they are there in their official capacity as oficers. Well he could ask, but he could not make them leave. If they were hanging out for no good reason and purposely reducing his business by there presence, he may be able to pursue a claim of harrasment. But that doesn’t mean if they decide to walk in and check out the place that he could make them leave because it is “Private Property”.
Not sure what will happen to the arrests already made, but there’s been holy hell raised over this, and State Rep. Charlie Geren is suspending the program (which has actually been on the books for several years, though not actively enforced…if I had to guess, I’d say previously it was most likely just used to tack onto the end of other, more serious alcohol-related charges), pending further review.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/community/14212726.htm
Mind you, I have little faith that private constituents being outraged are what he actually cares about, but if it gets the program abolished, great. I’d go so far as to say that I’d lay good money on the fact that if you use the cliche “follow the money and you’ll find the answer” holds firm in this situation.
Bolding mine.
No large-city politican in his right mind (or right wallet/re-election fund, as the case may be) is going to allow something like this to fuck with their city’s tourism and convention business so completely. Not a chance this thing is going to be allowed to stand in the end, bet on it.
Having covered police departments in five western states (but not, alas, Texas) I’m guessing that the bar sweep was a response to a specific problem, and it was a one-time thing. Bar owners and cops have a long, contentious relationship arising from the fact that the very natures of their individual professions are at cross purposes. Occasionally, bar owners become overly demanding of police services, complaining that the cops don’t respond fast enough when trouble arises, then complaining that the cops are too rough when they do respond. Frustrated at the conflicting demands, the cops will stage a unilateral demonstration of power (poaching DUIs as they leave the bar is a common tactic) which forces everybody to sit down at a big conference table and work out whatever it is that’s really bothering them, and things return to the previous dynamic of strained civility.
This is all speculation, of course, but it’s based on a couple of decades of reporting on police activity. In the interest of full disclosure, my father was a police officer for 30 years. And my younger brother was a cop for 10 years. But I promise, that doesn’t affect my point of view at all! 
Of course they’ll hold up in court. Are you joking? The court is in Texas. The cops are from Texas. They’re upholding Texas law. What part of that continuum doesn’t click?
Each and every person arrested has a very excellent chance of not only being convicted on exactly the charge brought by the arresting officers, but doing the absolute maximum jail time and fine permitted by Texas law.
Why? Why, because it’s Texas. That’s why. Who has killed more individuals than any other state since the Death Penalty was reinstated? Texas.
You don’t really think that any of those dangers to society are going to get away with anything less than the maximum permissable jail time and fines, now do you?
Seriously.
And, god help the business travellers from Yankee states who had the dumb luck to get caught in a hotel bar in this sweep. Them? They’re deeply fucked.
Cartooniverse
Quote:
Phillip Jones, president of the Dallas Convention and Visitors Bureau, said the program has the potential to devastate the Texas tourism and convention industry.
“I just got an e-mail from someone who said he was considering bringing a convention with 25,000 people to Dallas,” Jones said. “He told me that until you guys fix this problem, no city in Texas is even going to be on the list.”
Jones said that the convention industry pumps more than $8 billion annually into the North Texas economy, and that the cocktail hour is often integral to the experience.
“That’s where people relax, socialize and network,” Jones said. “They have a right to do that without fear of being arrested.”
My business is puny, I had plans to go to Houston and Austin in the next 12 months to teach locals some workshops. I guess if they want to train, they can get on a plane and fly north. Apparently, Texas is no longer in the United States of America, where in many other states, an adult is permitted to buy a drink in a hotel bar, drink it, walk to the elevator, go to their room and go to bed - all without being arrested and charged with a crime.
-Shrug- My suspicion is that the cops and TABC folks could give one fucking rat’s ass what the Texas Tourism Bureau folks think about all of this. You get a taste for this kind of … what would one call it?.. law enforcement?.. and you really do not want to give it up. It’s a big state. I bet those guys will keep themselves busy for months and months and months.
It’ll kind of put a damper on them good 'ole world-famous Texas Fourth of July BBQ’s, when it becomes clear that the only thing safe to drink in public is iced water. :rolleyes:
I agree. However, a small-city politician without hotels or tourism dollars might find it quite profitable.
It does occur to me that this is G.D., and I shouldn’t go making such incredibly inflammatory statements without being able to prove them with fact.
So. Executions as a result of Death Penalties broken down by state and number. By just almost four times as many, the state of Texas has executed more people than anyone else since 1976 when the death penalty was reinstated in the USA.
The point is, the comment and cite proving same are provided to show that there is a definite, measurable zeal to enforce a law to the absolute most severe end in Texas. Hence, my remarks concerning just what will happen to the people arrested.
Not to be the math police but you’re cite leaves a lot to the imagination. Texas is the 2nd most populous state in the union and the cite also doesn’t include the history of each state’s execution laws. Not every state in the cite had an execution law in effect since 1976. The closest relevant number would be executions in relation to population. And then only in states that allow for it.
I did some quick number crunching and found 4 states that had higher execution rates than Texas for the year 2005 (the only full year available in your cite).
State Executions__________Population per Exec.**Ratio to Texas ** DELAWARE________1________________830,364_______________1.43
OKLAHOMA________4________________880,888_______________1.34
ALABAMA_________4______________1,132,546_______________1.05
MISSOURI________5______________1,150,924_______________1.02
TEXAS__________19______________1,183,685
I used 2004 population numbers
Texas is still in the upper quartile in executions but it is not the leader and it is not some rogue state as portrayed by Death Penalty Information Center.
That’s a fascinating spin on what I said, which was that since it was reinstated, Texas has executed more people than any other state.
Which is 100 % factually correct, as supported by the cite I provided. You may not like that fact, and as you showed, may need to spin the numbers by taking into account other variables such as population.
I felt no need to spin. The cite I provided is accurate- or are you in point of fact stating that the cite I provided is showing false numbers, and that the state of Texas has not executed exactly 362 people since 1976?
If you are not staying my cite is a lie, then perhaps an apology might be in order. My cite was in no manner or fashion leaving anything to the imagination. Your accusation stands- prove that Texas has not executed 362 people since 1976. Or, alternately, I will be delighted to read your apology here. 
I’m terribly sorry that you don’t like the fact I cited, but that does not change the validity of that fact.
Cartooniverse
If you meant to imply that Texas leads the nation in executions then you’re wrong based on the site you listed. It’s not a matter of debate. Texas executes fewer people as a ** percentage of population ** than Delaware, Oklahoma, Alabama, and Missouri. That’s based on the site you listed. Since the states vary greatly in size that is the only relevant way of looking at it. If I didn’t explain this well enough for you then you have my apologies.
-Grin- Why, aren’t we the clever wordspinner. I’m not wrong. I linked to a chart. The state of Texas is at the top. Why is it at the top? Because since 1976, they have executed more citizens than any other state. We’ll have to agree to disagree my friend, because I can read a chart as well as you can- that chart has no asterix next to it asking readers to do some calculations using the raw data and figuring in populations, and so on. It’s a chart. It presents irrefutable data.
Texas has killed more prisoners since 1976 than any other state has. Period.
You did make me laugh, however. My capacity to understand your explanation is fine. It is the basis of what you are trying to make me agree to that I refuse to go along with. You were perfectly understandable, thank you.
There’s nothing clever in what I’ve said and I’ve spun nothing. It’s basic math. My criticism is the website. You can see the same statistics from your cite only done in deaths per 1000. The difference between my calculations is that I used their 2005 statistics with 2004 census data. The cite you posted was updated with 2005 death statistics but for some strange reason used 2000 census data. Using that combination only shows 2 states with a higher death rate than Texas (Oklahoma and Delaware). My numbers were more accurate.
This is not an attack against you. I only pointed out the bias from a website that has an agenda. The numbers posted were statistically meaningless unless presented in an apples-to-apples application. The pie chart did not do this. The 2 most relevant components to the numbers posted on the site are population size and states that have had the death penalty for the same years as Texas. The first component was instantly available to anyone on the net even though the Death Penalty Information Center chose to use figures that were 4 years old. The pie chart from the DPIC site showed Texas executing over 25% of all the criminals IN COMPARISON TO OTHER STATES.
Why this is applicable to the cases at hand absolutely escapes me. Please show the connection between executions and arrests for DUI.
Why, it will be my pleasure.
If you read the post carefully, and the subsequent posts with my name that directly address the cite I used, I am using the link to support my statement: the law enforcement entities in the State of Texas apply the maximum penalty permissable under state law when they can.
The fact that the death penalty has been applied more times in Texas since 1976 directly supports this thesis, and so I used it as cite. Until squelched by public outcry, if that is possible, those caught up in the sweeps don’t face a stern talking to. Whatever the maximum is, that’s what they face. That was my point.
Couldn’t be more clear. Hope that helped.
Cartooniverse
[quote=Cartooniverse=the law enforcement entities in the State of Texas apply the maximum penalty permissable under state law when they can.[/quote]
You haven’t actually proven anything, Cartooniverse. At best you’ve proven that in 362 cases, for whatever reason, the judges applied the maximum sentence – that of execution – to those who had been found guilty of crimes. Which didn’t need proving; it’s a matter of public record.
If it were true that every single person in Texas, having been accused of a crime, receives the maximum sentence, then we would have no need for plea bargaining here. We’d have no need for defense attorneys (or judges or prosecutors for that matter, since anyone accused of a crime is by default guilty). And my pretty little bottom would be sitting in prison for the next six months, to boot.
Not every judge in Texas is insane and corrupt. Not every police officer here is brutal and thuggish. Not every defense lawyer is that incompetent. Not every prosecutor seeks the maximum sentence.
Find some more specific numbers. People convicted versus receiving the maximum sentence, perhaps. Or even people arrested versus people convicted of a crime. What you have here is irrelevant.
No, that was not your original statement. You said quote"The point is, the comment and cite proving same are provided to show that there is a definite, measurable zeal to enforce a law to the absolute most severe end in Texas. Hence, my remarks concerning just what will happen to the people arrested".
The premise that Texas has a zeal for killing people is not substantiated by your cite. They execute fewer people per 1000 than the top 4 states, which is the exact opposite of what the pie chart shows. The chart you linked did not factor in population size or comparative years even though the same site showed executions per 1000 on another page. I also showed you that the site was deliberately skewed by using 2000 census data instead of 2004.
Did you ask yourself why they chose 1976 for the pie chart? No? The reason 1976 was chosen was that the US Supreme Court struck down virtually every death penalty law in the 1975. Texas was one of the first states to restructure their laws in a manner acceptable to the SC. The chart was designed to show Texas in a bad light by using virtually no statistically relevant figures. EVEN THOUGH THE SAME SITE HAD THE FIGURES TO USE.
There is no relationship between your original premise (which was wrong) and the debate. This has nothing to do with death penalty laws.